At our school, we have a program that adds directly to your GPA based on the amount of AP/IB Classes taken. Because of this, everyone is hypercompetitive (especially for the top 10 spots), taking online AP classes in a semester and stuff like that. I know that after a while, the marginal value of AP classes begins to decrease in the eyes of colleges. But, is there a point where taking AP classes actually hurts you?
(I’m asking because I’m one of those students - taken 10 APs so far (in freshman and sophomore year), currently enrolled in 4 APs + 5 IBs)
Ivies, hopefully. Also looking into UVA since top 15 at my school typically get accepted in any given year. Hoping for Jefferson Scholarship but that probably wont happen.
If you are targeting competitive/highly selective colleges, then your goal should be to be academically competitive, and also to have clear interests, skills, and outside achievements that would make you an interesting and competitive applicant. Grades and test scores alone won’t do it. You can overload on AP classes, and not get in. Here’s an example of a valedictorian with top SAT scores and 5’s on 15 AP exams who got rejected by almost all top schools to which he applied:
You want to take courses that challenge and interest you, and do reasonably well in them. If you are in the top 10% of your class you should be reasonably competitive. You want your GC to be able to check off the “most rigorous” box on his form, indicating that you have challenged yourself with a rigorous curriculum given the resources and options available to you. But beyond that, you need to go out and throw yourself into things that you are passionate about, and find what calls to you.
@renaissancedad great thread, sounds extrene, although it sounds like he did ok and just was offended at the lack of bragging rights that the HYPS would have provided.
I do think the rifle competitions was the problem here. Too much has happened on school campuses although the Rice wait list surprised me from that view point.
I have to wonder about his comment “Another lesson learned that I’m still smarting over is that need-based financial aid is a complete and utter farce. My parents told me stories of their friends’ children, who managed to horizontal sweep the Ivies and play them against one another to squeeze out thousands of extra dollars. One of the guys they told me about used his financial aid packages to Cornell and Brown to haggle down Dartmouth from 50k/year all the way to 35k/year! And to put things into context–this was a guy who’d won a Siemens award, and this was a guy whose parents made even more money and held more assets than mine. So the conclusion I’m drawing (and I freely admit that no shortage of its rationale comes from bitterness over my own situation) is that “need-based” financial aid isn’t based on how much money the student needs, but how much the college needs the student on campus.”
Dartmouth I think does say on its website that if you have a better need based offer from a peer school to tell them to see if there is something they missed in doing your package.
Do not mistake the school’s goal of a well-rounded student body for the idea that you are supposed to be well-rounded in everything. Academically - yes. On ECs - it’s depth, not breadth. You do not need to volunteer, belong to 4 clubs (and be president of 2), work part-time, join the orchestra, play a sport and submit your art portfolio. You need just 2-3 ECs in which you have invested yourself to a sufficient degree that you have made an impact in a meaningful way. Check out Cal Newport’s web site and resources, Study Hacks - he has lots of great advice.
And where APs fit in is that if taking more is a substitute for developing other aspects of your life, then it’s become a negative. The difference between 10 APs and 12 APs in the eyes of admissions is zilch. If by taking 10, you have freed up time to do more of something you care about, then that’s the best way to spend your time.
Thanks for all the helpful comments! I realized that the what did I do wrong horror story was basically me. Maybe I’ll do less directly academic stuff and focus more on service and leadership.
I’d suggest that you keep your academic focus and add service and leadership. Unless you are a recruited athlete or a Nobel prize winner like Malala Yousafzai (or something along those lines) academics the first priority when it comes to college admissions. If you are aiming for the top schools (and I certainly agree with expanding past the Ivys) you want your guidance counselor to check off that you have taken the most rigorous HS schedule available so talk to him/her about what (ex. how many APs, which ones) you need for that to happen.
It still helps being one of those top ten spots. If taking fewer APs is going to move you out of the top 10 that is something to think about. I think what people are saying is the ECs are not just about going through the motions but are about doing something you care about.
As for the horror story, it sounds like some of his politics were an issue for the ad coms and his rifle hobby given the news these days. I think it he was on the ROTC ski team it might have been a different story, My hunch is that he did not present as well as he could. IRL I have met a number of 4.0 2350 students who assume they are going to get accepted and do not make the effort in their essays that they should. Some do get accepted but I know at least two people from different schools that this happened to. One it worked out, she got a mid level Ivy off the wait list and was in at Williams anyway but it took a while and was torture for all concerned. The other got rejected from Haverford and Barnard among other places and ended up at a #35-40 school with some merit money but not a free ride. She was accepted as a transfer at Columbia but decided to stay at her school where she was #1 anyway.
^ Presentation is certainly one key. The most successful applicants in my experience have both the academic qualifications without any question marks AND a clear “narrative” that ties together their academic and extra-curricular interests. It is also very easy to be torpedoed by poor essays, recommendations, etc.
For a lesser version of the “horror story”, this legacy with superb qualifications was deferred ED at Wharton:
I have no idea why, as he seems to meet every key criteria, both in terms of academics and EC interests; but it’s possible that there was something in his essays, recommendations, or how he came across during his summer program at Wharton that could have played a factor.
Actually, valedictorian, top 10, etc… only matter to high school students. Colleges look for top 10%, and then adjust depending on whether you attend a lower-performing school (in which case you need to be top 1-5 when weighted) or a higher-performing school (more leeway is given considering the rigor.)