HYPSM, Duke, etc.

Chance Me / Match Me
1

Hi,

Any comments regarding any strengths/weaknesses you see in my profile would be much appreciated. I’d be glad to receive any feedback, whether positive or not. I understand that “chancing” isn’t totally possible at this point for the top colleges, but I’d like to know if I’m competitive enough to get into (probably) at least one of my top choices. Thank you so much!

Objective:
ACT: 35
SAT II: 800 Chem, 800 M2, 800 Bio, 800 US
GPA: Don’t have GPA access, but I’ve gotten all A/A+ in Honors/AP courses, with a couple of A- grades here and there. GPA probably isn’t terrible.
AP: Lang (5), Phys-1 (5), Bio (5), Latin (5), USH (5)
Senior Year Course Load: 5 APs
Major Awards (USAMO, Intel etc.): Nothing widely considered “major.” Published creative writer in literary magazines; Pres. Volunteer Service Award Gold Medal; USABO Semifinalist; AP Scholar w/ Distinction; Nat. Merit; Scholastic Art & Writing Competition 1 National Silver Medal & 1 National Gold Medal; aiming to get independent sci. research published in a decently acclaimed journal in the next couple of months (see “Job/Work Experience […]” below for more info).

Subjective:

Extracurriculars: I considered mine generally good; I’ve invested a lot of time in developing them.
-Two varsity sports, one four-year, one three-year; captain of one of them (9-12; 10-12)
-See volunteering section for more info, but most importantly: co-founder & CEO of local educational service organization (a lot of time, ~500 hours, invested here) (10-12)
-Class Pres. (9-12)
-Co-Founder/Pres. of classics program (10-12)
-School Newspaper: senior columnist (9), senior section editor (10), editor-in-chief (11-12)
-Columnist for HuffPost (10-12)
-Co-Founder/Pres. of two academic clubs (10-12)

Job/Work Experience & Summer Activities: Not sure what counts for the former, but I performed independent research at a university for a couple of months and interned at NASA…

Volunteer/Community Service: ~1500 hours by now; co-founder & CEO of local educational service organization to which I’ve dedicated most of my time (an “in-depth” EC), educator at a STEM museum, instructor in an educational program for the underprivileged

Everything related to application period (i.e., recs, essays): Everything should be pretty well above average, but, of course, I don’t know yet. I have great relationships with my teachers, and I’m rather confident in my writing skills, so I’m not too worried about this facet of my application.

I don’t need financial aid.

Thanks to all!

My list: all Ivies, Duke, Stanford, MIT; any recommendations for safeties?

2

You are a very strong applicant. A couple of comments:

  • Why "all Ivies" + Stanford/MIT/Duke? Are you applying everywhere prestigious, or do you actually have some targets that make sense for you?
  • What do you want to study?
  • I caution everyone with gaudy EC stats like yours to be careful that they are verifiable. You mention 500 service hours one place, 1500 another. 1500 hours would represent something like 10 hours/week for 50 weeks over the past 3 years. That's a lot of time for someone who is also doing two varsity sports plus academics plus everything else. Make sure you can document this.

Safeties would depend to some extent on your geographic location and what you are interested in. The odds are fairly good for you getting into one of your top choices if you write a strong application and present yourself well, though safeties are still a good idea.

3

Thanks, @renaissancedad, for the quick response. I’m probably not going to apply to all of the Ivies, but I’m looking into Harvard, Yale, DMouth, and Duke specifically. I forgot to mention that I’m a legacy at Harvard and Yale, if that carries any important bearing. I like the aforementioned colleges’ Classics programs. I’m unfortunately very undecided and all over the place regarding what exactly I want to study. I’m thinking Classics, journalism, or biomedical sciences (radically different fields, I know…), but I’m probably going to stick with Classics or journalism, as they’re likely to be more distinguishing foci and, frankly, I love pursuing them. I apologize, secondly, for the misleading information: I have done about 1500 hours in TOTAL, but not with one organization—the 500 hours with my own organization are included under that 1500-hour total. Hopefully this still isn’t a negative alarm to adcoms…

Regarding Classics studies, do you have any suggestions as to how I may play up this background? I do already have the aforementioned Classics startup, in addition to 3 gold medals on the National Latin Exam, and 2 gold medals on both the National Etymology Exam & National Latin Vocabulary Exam. I don’t really know what else to do at this point.

Thank you so much for the feedback!

4

A few thoughts:

  1. Re Harvard and Yale legacy, those will undoubtedly help some. You are very qualified, but having any kind of hook helps.
  2. The classics focus was somewhat lost in the OP, even though you mentioned starting a classics society. I don't see ay mention of your National Latin Exam 3 gold medals or your National Etymology Exam & National Latin Vocabulary Exam medals. Those are definitely worth mentioning, especially if classics is a possible major for you. A humanities (classics or journalism) plus biology combo would be cool. You have plenty to play up your classics background, just make sure that you list your accomplishments clearly and organize your activities cohesively so that they don't appear like a hodgepodge.
  3. Along these lines, you are very accomplished in a number of areas, so that tends to naturally dilute some of your individual areas of accomplishment. 2 varsity sports + writing awards + classics awards + journalism distinction + USABO/hoping to get published in biology + NASA internship + student leadership + ridiculous volunteer credentials. It's a lot - at least 5 major areas of focus, even if you group writing + journalism + classics together. That's hard to keep straight. On the good side, you seem like the kind of extremely talented student who belongs at a top school. On the bad side, you need to not come across as being all over the map, or losing the impact because of the sheer number of areas. Your essays will be important to clarify what your priorities are and what matters most to you. Less may be more in some cases.
  4. Regarding your service hours, anything over 500 is very impressive. Hours in the thousands start to stretch the limits of what is possible while still maintain other areas of focus. Remember that schools only count your high school hours, not what you may have done before. Documentation is always good, You have a Presidential Volunteer award, so that immediately establishes a baseline of creditability. Things like the Duke of Edinburgh or Congressional Awards are good because they require logging your hours of participation, so they provide immediate credibility.
5

Thanks so much again, @renaissancedad, for the sage advice. I appreciate the clear, thoughtful organization of your responses.

Do you think it is necessary to include something like a NASA internship in my application (i.e., in the Awards/Honors section)? I feel as though the mention of such an internship would water down my profile, especially if I’m striving for a Classical/journalistic concentration. I plan to place all of my service involvement high on my Activities list for the Common App, as I’ve spent hundreds of hours at each of my three main service foci, and to include my four club/program/service-organization presidencies in a similarly high position. But that relinquishes positions like HuffPost journalism and school-newspaper leadership, in both of which I love to participate and to both of which I’ve dedicated a lot of time. At this point, I’d leave out my NASA internship. Is this wise? It was over one summer, and while it was a significant commitment of my time, it doesn’t really contribute much positivity to the bigger picture—rather, it unearths my being all over the place.

Sadly, I have so much other leadership in my high-school career—for example, I’m the director of a CompSci program for the disadvantaged—but, in all honesty, as you said, “[l]ess may be more in some cases.” I guess omitting these somewhat random educational positions is my best bet.

6

@WisdomVein, I’d list the NASA internship under summer activities, but wouldn’t particularly address it. Paid internships at places like NASA are prestigious, and in a lot of cases they would feature prominently, but in your case it doesn’t particularly contribute to the big picture. The impression I’d strive to convey is to get an adcom member to read your app and think to himself/herself “this kid even got a paid NASA internship, and didn’t feature it; he’s confident about what his main activities and interests are, and his side activities are good enough to be featured”. I’d aim to create a similar impression about being class president - you don’t need to feature school leadership activities. You have plenty of stuff that shows off that element much more impressively. If you get questions about those things in an interview, I’d downplay them and be most about them - they were things that you did on the side, or did to develop your leadership ability for other areas of focus, or did when you were still exploring different directions.

If I were you I’d focus on 4 main activities:

  1. Your community service, especially your educational service working with disadvantaged, given the amount of time you've dedicated to it and your role in creating an independent service. This is distinctive.
  2. Your humanities background. I'd portray yourself as a classics scholar (lots of impressive awards and credentials) who loves to write (Scholastic Arts and Writing awards), and who has expanded that background towards journalism (leadership position and distinctive Huff Post columnist). Any school looking for strong humanities students will be impressed by this combination and your accumulated credentials.
  3. Biology/biomedical. I think that the humanities + biology combo should be appealing, and you have a fine credential in being a USABO semifinalist. If you are working on getting a paper published then I assume that there is relevant research background that needs to be highlighted as well. If this turns out to not be such a major thing then you could split your classics and journalism/writing activities, or simply keep your list shorter. I wouldn't include the NASA internship as part of this unless what you did somehow related to your ongoing biomedical research and interest, which I assume is unlikely. Your STEM museum work might fit in here if it relates to your research interest.
  4. Athletics. Doing 2 varsity sports while doing all the other stuff is impressive, and speaks to your work ethic and time management skills, but I assume athletics will not be a focus in college.

I hope that helps.

7

@renaissancedad, I truly appreciate your advice. I never thought about my pursuits in this way—thank you so much! I now have a much clearer picture of how I may best present myself to adcoms. Do you think it’s reasonable to expect a couple of Ivy acceptances? I’m certainly going to have safeties, as you’d suggest, but I’m still aiming pretty high. And I do understand that the Ivy League admissions process is mind-boggling.

8

I think you are a very strong candidate. Ivy acceptances are unpredictable so it’s good to have a range of schools, but personally I think your chances are fairly good. Your ACT of is at the 75th % mark for H-Y and Duke, and above it for Dartmouth. You have 4 SAT II 800’s and 5 AP scores of 5. So your standardized tests are fine. You are taking 5 APs this year, so your curricular rigor is fine. From what you describe, your GPA is fine. Your ECs are very strong, and you have what it takes to differentiate yourself from the majority of qualified applicants. And you have a moderate hook at H-Y, with SCEA at one of them as another potential mild hook. So unless you present yourself terribly, you are in about as good shape as you can be without being a recruited athlete, celebrity or high profile legacy.

If I were you I would apply SCEA as a legacy to whichever of Harvard or Yale you prefer, unless you decide that one of Duke/Dartmouth is absolutely the best place for you and would rather go ED. I think you stand a solid shot at SCEA. Then you can still apply RD to the other 3 schools without any need to apply to safeties. If you are deferred then you can apply to a wider range of target schools. I personally don’t see you doing worse than being deferred unless you write an absolutely terrible application. I personally think you’re a particularly great fit for both Duke and Dartmouth (two amazing schools), and I would be surprised to see you get in to multiple of your top 4 targets, though there are no guarantees.

9

Thanks for the information and the encouragement, @renaissancedad. I’m still deciding between Harvard and Yale, but, again, either Duke or Dartmouth would be fantastic. My school has had an excellent relationship with the Ivy League in general (about 30 kids going each year out of a class of ~110), and I’m definitely in the top 3 in my class overall, so hopefully that’s an indicator of some Ivy-League success for me (though, of course, there are no guarantees). Did you mean to say in the penultimate clause of your post that you wouldn’t be surprised if I were to get into multiple, or did you intend what you said? Sorry, I’m not trying to come off in any rude way, I’m just unsure.

On that note, this is some of the best advice concerning college admissions I’ve ever received!

10

Sorry for the typo - you are correct. I wouldn’t be surprised to see you get in to several of your top 4 targets. Adcoms can be unpredictable, but it doesn’t seem too hard of a stretch for me to envision that, if you present yourself well.

Others have yet to chime in and may disagree with some specifics, but I will be surprised if anyone views you as other than a strong candidate.

11

@renaissancedad, great, thank you for the clarification. I do, indeed, hope that others provide their insights, but you definitely seem to know exactly what you’re talking about, so I myself would be surprised to see radically contrasting views on my situation.

12

It’s good to see a fellow Scholastic medalist :slight_smile: (you and I have similar awards, EC’s, and stats, actually!)

Definitely organize your EC’s. Emphasize what you did with your business and who you helped. A question that could come up is “Why did this person start up his/her own service instead of joining an established one, which would have more resources and potentially make a greater impact?” so answer that adequately by showing how you provided something unique and needed to the community.

I know of kids who got rejected because they seemed so “perfect” on paper with being captains of varsity sports, doing many different competitions, and starting their own companies that it came off as unbelievable. It’s a tricky balance.

13

Exactly. Part of this is presenting yourself. Less may be more in some cases.

14

Wow. You have truly impressive credentials. Despite this, you don’t come across as the least bit arrogant in your posts here. Make sure you continue to demonstrate this in your interviews and essays.

I suspect you’ll get into most of the schools you apply to, so it’s more likely a question of where you want to go, rather than who will accept you.

I will second @renaissancedad’s advice that you you apply to either Harvard or Yale SCEA (pick your favorite) and save the other schools for the RD round. Don’t apply to Duke RD - you stand to benefit more from an SCEA application to Harvard or Yale than you would from an RD application to Duke.

15

@BldrDad, I assume you mean that the OP shouldn’t apply to Duke ED (you said RD).

16

Oops- that’s correct, I meant the OP should not apply to Duke ED - unless the OP is absolutely certain they don’t want to attend any of HYPSM and is willing to trade likely acceptances from these schools for an earlier acceptance from Duke. I wouldn’t consider that a wise decision, and I’m a Duke alum!

17

Thanks, everyone, for your responses. I really appreciate them.

@delineated, I totally understand your last paragraph. I’m really going to try to present myself in such a way that only a couple of my passions shine through as opposed to all of them (seeing as I’ve never had a truly favorite subject in school). And I agree that the question you posed could certainly emerge at one point down the line, so I guess I’ll have to illustrate the extent to which I’ve taken this service initiative. I’ve served hundreds of disadvantaged children for a pretty long time, and I’ve left a legacy through this program at my school so that other students may volunteer for/lead the program in the future. Essays and recs will be important!

@BldrDad, thank you for your kind words. In light of the RD-Duke suggestion you and @renaissancedad made, I agree that my best choice is Harvard or Yale SCEA. I’m not going to get deflated if I’m rejected or deferred, really, because I’ve seen highly qualified, comparatively distinguishing students get denied by HYP, in addition to the lower-tier Ivies. I’d like to think that wherever I end up will be the best fit for me… or at least I hope so.

18

I think the OP is a great fit for Duke and Duke would be a great place for him, but I think he stands a great chance of getting in RD as well, so I agree that applying there ED doesn’t make a ton of sense. I also think that he might be a great merit scholarship candidate at Duke.

19

Interesting, @renaissancedad. I’ve never considered my candidacy for the merit scholarship. I have some time, I think, to decide upon these schools, but I’m still definitely going to consider Duke. Its campus is gorgeous, its Classics program is great, among some other programs, and I’ve done my best to stand out, so all I have to do now, as you’ve all suggested, is stay concise, wise, and methodical in my extracurricular presentation. Are there any other institutions for which I seem a fit?

20

@WisdomVein, I think that Duke, Penn, Stanford and Dartmouth are all interesting potential places for you because of their combination of interdisciplinary programs, sciences + humanities, and social engagement. These all seem to be strong elements of who you are. Stanford and Duke also have strong athletic traditions, which might appeal to you. Harvard and Yale are amazing schools, but I’m not sure either is necessarily the best fit for you, based on very limited information and despite your legacy status. Of the two, I’d probably peg you more towards Yale than Harvard.

What school best fits you should be a very personal choice, though many people seem to make their decision more on prestige and rankings. I went to Stanford a long time ago and loved it. It was a much better fit for me than the Ivies, which is not to say that it was a better school. But if I were applying now, I’d find something like the AB Duke Scholar’s program hard to turn down if lucky enough to be selected (which only happens to about the top 1% of Duke applicants). Beyond the free ride, you are part of a small community of scholars within a larger research University, and you are plugged in from the beginning to the full resources of the University, with the flexibility to do just about anything. That to me is an incredible advantage. You seem like the kind of person who has the kind of inquisitive spark and intellectual hunger that they seek.

http://abduke.duke.edu/about/selection-process/

It’s not something that you can apply for. If you apply to Duke and are fortunate enough to be invited to participate in the selection process, then I would give it serious thought. @BldrDad is undoubtedly more knowledgeable about Duke than I am.