I am not sure how to answer that question. At the time, I don’t think he regretted taking the 150s calculus. The people who were in 160s liked it more (especially the IBL sections, but he didn’t have that option), but they spent a lot more time on it, too (especially the IBL sections), and he wasn’t that interested in math at the time. He had more trouble with math the more theoretical it got, at least at the time. Later, when he got deeper into quantitative social science work, he needed to go back and learn more math, and maybe then he wished he had taken 160s, but it wasn’t something he spent a lot of time worrying about.
I started in 160s (in the stone ages), quickly realized it was not for me and dropped down into 152 (had gotten credit for 151). Definitely the right decision for me as I had no aptitude nor interest in proof based math.
DS on the other hand, placed in a somewhat similar situation at another U, was intrigued by the proof based math (which he had not been exposed to in HS) and refused to drop down despite the ‘D’ he received on the first test and profs suggestions that students performing below average drop down. He ‘got’ it, ended up with a B in the class and today is in a respected math PhD program.
Kids will know whether they enjoy the particular challenge of 160s math.
@ihs76 has it spot on. Everyone who gets into 160s should try it, at the least. You can drop until 5th week which is halfway into the quarter.
I have a different math question. How is STAT 20000 (the elementary statistics class)? I am not interested in math, nor am I interested in any majors that involve math, but I believe it is important to have a base knowledge of statistics. Is it an easy-ish class? How does it compare in difficulty to taking the normal Calc 151-152 sequence? Also, are there any computer science classes that fulfill the math requirement for people who have 0 background in CS?
@jarrett211 No idea. I have heard Stat 220 isn’t that hard so Stat 200 is probably even easier. I don’t know anyone who has taken it, though. You can take any of the CS intro sequences (105/106, 111/112, 121/122, 151/152, 161/162) for the core. No intro CS class at UChicago assumes any prior knowledge, though they get progressively harder, starting at the 120s which are pretty hard but very practical. The 150s are pretty hard difficulty but very theoretical, and the 160s are masochistic and highly theoretical (but you get a lot out of them if you take them!) I don’t know anyone who has taken 105/106 or 111/112.
You should take Calc though. It’s important to know.
@MurphyBrown you can add/drop freely first week. Until 3rd week you can drop freely but have to get the instructor to sign a form if you want to add into their class. The math dept has a special thing where they let you drop into the non-honors version of Calculus up to 5th week, basically letting you go up to the first midterm risk-free.
@MurphyBrown I’m pretty sure it’s a fresh start and you don’t have to redo what you missed, though I might be mistaken.
@HydeSnark The math department definitely plays by their own rules. Students in second quarter honors analysis had the opportunity to take the midterm and see their grade before deciding if they wanted to drop down a level. I thought it was strange at first, but that class is so challenging that I think it gives the students a good opportunity to see if the have the chops for the material and the drive and desire to deal with the amount of work required.
My familiarity with US grading is almost, if not quite, nonexistent. I’m coming from an IB school, where the top grade boundary starts at 80-90% for most subjects (though it’s as low as 65% for a few). Grading is generally based on criteria (languages), markschemes (most subjects), or the marker’s overall impression (TOK). An IB grading curve requiring 90 or 92% for the top mark is virtually unheard of.
Beyond grade deflation and a lot of work, which I’m willing to live with and excited about, respectively, what should I expect at UChicago? Lots of essays/labs? A major emphasis on midterms and finals? Do some profs still use multiple-choice tests? Are grading curves generally closer to 70% or 90% for an A (or does this vary by department)? Would like your thoughts on these points, and anything else you think is worth noting.
@NotVerySmart Every class is different but there’s generally two types of classes.
Some classes will have a focus on essays and short answers. Generally you will have readings that you will be expected to complete between lectures, often with short papers/responses that need to be submitted. Every few weeks you will have to write a larger essay, with a bigger essay for your final.
Other classes will have a focus on p-sets, labs and tests. You will generally have a p-set and lab due every week. You will have a few midterms and a final.
But obviously this isn’t concrete. It depends on the professor and class and will be explained in the syllabus.
Grading is entirely up to the professor. Departments set approximate distributions, and the professor can get in trouble for being too far from that, but other that that it’s entirely up to the professor. Exact methods of grading, like how much everything is worth, is up to the professor and will be explained on the syllabus. Most p-set classes are curved. Everyone’s grades are plotted out at the end, the top clump gets an A, the next gets an A-, the next gets a B+, etc.Grade distributions are fairly harsh compared to other schools, you have to be well in the top half of the class to get an A or A-, while most of the class receives some variation of a B and the bottom of the class gets some sort of C. They try to avoid giving out Ds or failing you unless there is clearly a problem.
Ok since I’m not sure if I want to be a math major, I’m definitely not going to try to take HA. Deep sigh of relief everyone – I’m not bringing that up again.
But what about the intermediate analyses? Regular and IBL? What are the pros and cons of, if by some chance one is placed into one, either taking it or “dropping” into Honors Calc?
@tutututututuru They don’t offer IBL analysis anymore. You’ll probably have a rough time unless you have experience with proofs, they use baby Rudin and they are going to assume you are very good at proving things.
I’m a little perplexed why you’re so eager to jump ahead. The math major is tiny, taking the 160s is not going to kill your schedule. It’s very possible that (if you somehow place into Analysis, which does happen) you will struggle a lot in Analysis without the math background it assumes. I know some people who had to let Analysis (Honors and not) take over their life to succeed - and I mean take over their life by UChicago standards, which is really saying something. There’s literally no downsides to taking the 160s. Worse case scenario you get very good at proofs and get an easy A if you’re really good enough that you could place into Analysis AND get to take Honors Analysis the next year.
I was just thinking late at night about all the possibilities. Literally can’t get UChicago off my mind!
Do you know why they discontinued IBL Analysis? I read good things about it.
Also do you have any input into Hum, SOSC, or civ? I was thinking Philosophical Perspectives, Self, and then not sure, respectively.
No clue why they discontinued IBL analysis.
If you think you’ll enjoy Phil Per you probably will, I’ve heard good things. HBC is a good alternative for someone who wants to take Phil Per. I haven’t taken sosc yet but people seem more uniformly positive on Classics than Self or Power. Some people love power/self and some people hate it, but I’ve yet to hear someone say they hate Classics. It might have a lot to do with the kind of people who take Classics though. You read from less sources but read entire books instead of excerpts. Phil Per/Classics is also a pretty common combo, but if you go that route prepare to read an absurd amount of Plato and Aristotle.
If you take Civ I’d recommend taking a discussion one (Colonizations, Gender, Euro, American, Russian, Ancient Med (?)) because those are very, very different from standard history classes. Lectures are good too and they will have a discussion section but it’s going to more similar to history classes you might have taken in high school. Euro Civ pairs very well with self/power/classics. Gender civ is apparently amazing.
Awesome! Thanks. Russian Civ was one that I was eyeing.
I’ll look into Classics. I’m looking into maybe doing a Philosophy major, and am trying to figure out which one would give me the best taste test. Maybe they’re all equal in that regard.
Can you discuss General Chem vs Honors General Chem? (And Organic Chem vs Honors Organic Chem?)
I’m looking to be a chem major and got a 5 on the AP chem exam, but I’m not sure which class I should start with 1st quarter. My other classes would be physics 13000, calc 15300/calc 16100/math 19620 (not sure which yet), and humes. Advice would be much appreciated! Thanks!
In case you haven’t found it, there’s a useful discussion in a Chem Department FAQ
(https://chemistry.uchicago.edu/kb/kb/index/catkey/advanced-placement-and-accreditation-tests.html#4)
"I got an AP 5 in chemistry, so I could place out of introductory chemistry. Should I take honors introductory chemistry or should I skip it and start right with organic as a first year student?
Advice from Professor Laurie J. Butler, former Undergraduate Chemistry Advisor:
'Leave it up to the student. They should be aware of the following:
Their high school course(s), even if they had two years, do not even come close to covering thermodynamics and quantum mechanics at the level covered in the honors intro. chem. (Chem 12100-12300). Some of what is taught in the first quarter of honors intro. chem. is review, but even that quarter presents a considerable amount of material at a deeper level than even the best AP 5 students have seen.
Despite the above, students have successfully skipped honors intro. chem. and started right with organic their first year. They report that they miss the intro. chem. background most severely when they take inorganic (Chem 20100) (because of the molecular orbitals), and the second quarter of physical chemistry (Chem. 26200) (because of the thermodynamics), but with hard work they do pick up on the background material with private study and do fine.
The advantage of starting with organic is that it leaves you able to complete most degree requirements in 3 years, making it easier to take more electives in the 4th year (graduate courses or more advanced courses not in major) or, in some cases, to graduate early.
The disadvantage is that it can make several courses significantly harder (see above), as an AP 5 on the chemistry advanced placement test does not mean you have had much, if any, of the material in Chem 12200 or Chem 12300.
Here is my advice:
If the student is unsure but the advantages are important for financial or other reasons they can try taking fall quarter organic, but if they don’t get an A or B they should go back to Chem 12200 in the winter quarter. An AP 5 student who gets a B- or C in fall quarter organic is skipping ahead to their own detriment. They should do the honors intro. winter/spring sequence. Then they will have the right background to continue getting the A’s that such a good student deserves.
If the student does opt to take the intro. chem. sequence, advise them although the first quarter used to be largely review even in the honors section, the honors sequence is under substantial revision so they may want to consult with the honors intro chem instructor to decide whether they should seek to get accredited for the first quarter and start the sequence with winter quarter (they could, for instance, use the free fall quarter to take Math 153, if they also got calculus placement credit).'"
Hi there! I was just wondering, is it true that the Core isn’t as flexibile as it seems and it’s almost impossible to experiment with classes (because each class is very difficult and requires prior knowledge)?
@Lavendercats what do you mean by “flexible”?
The core is written out pretty explicitly [url=<a href=“http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/thecurriculum/%5Dhere.%5B/url”>http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/thecurriculum/]here.[/url] Don’t expect to place out of any of it except for Core Bio if you have taken AP bio and got a 5. You have to take two quarters of math. You have to take two quarters of a physical science, which will involve a lab and are all fairly similar. You have to take Civ, Hum, and Sosc. It’s a core curriculum. it’s not really supposed to be flexible.
It’s not true that it’s impossible to experiment with classes.
It is true that classes are difficult - UChicago conceptions of “easy” and “difficult” are definitely skewed on the difficult side. I didn’t take any classes widely considered to be easy, and my classes ranged from “average” to “really really hard”, by UChicago standards. One of my closest high school friends goes to Princeton and we compared syllabi - she said there was way more work per week and more stuff going on than in her classes, which she rated as relatively similar in difficulty to mine, and even the classes I considered fairly typical were pretty intense compared to the Princeton classes. We were required to read more, write more, and our classes moved at a much faster pace. The grading is also fairly harsh, despite slightly rising GPAs and some perceptions of grade inflation (by Chicago standards) - I can elaborate on what I think is going on if you want.
It is not true that classes require prior knowledge. Some classes have pre-requisites, obviously, but most professors are pretty open with letting you email your way in if you can make a case for yourself. And pre-reqs aren’t so demanding as to stop you from taking classes in an area you are interested in. Prior knowledge often helps but many classes are meant as a stand alone module that can both be understood independently AND in conjunction with what you already know. Often, since it’s UChicago, you are expected to learn the background on your own while moving along with the class, and you will be assigned readings that will explain what you need to know to follow along with the class.
Neither of those have much bearing on experimentation, however. Since the classes go faster b/c of the quarter system, you are able to take more classes in more time, and the core + your major will leave you with plenty of room to take classes in areas you might think you’re interested in. You can also audit almost any class (that isn’t a language class), and sit in on the class without receiving credit or a grade. You can easily get away with taking a core class, a major class, and a class that you’re just taking for the heck of it every quarter. To get up to four classes, add on another core or another major class.
Hi again, how many hours a day are typically spent in class and how many hours are spent doing homework?