I am a first year at UChicago - ask me anything

Colleges & Universities University of Chicago
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@Hydesnark - Question about “it’s probably not too late for Snitchcock or BJ if you deposit before ivy day”. My D was accepted, but she’s waiting to hear back from a couple of other schools later this month. Snell-Hitchcock seems like the best fit dorm for her, but are you saying the chance of getting placed there is low if she enrolls after she visits UC in April … implying that dorms are assigned on a first come first served basis?

Also, I’ve read in several places now that students at UC are more stressed due to the workload than at other similarly prestigious/ranked/selective/etc universities. Based on what you hear from your friends at other schools, do you agree with this?

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This is the part of the college selection experience that I abhor. It all seems so stressful, with too many unknowables. So we need to deposit now in order to secure desirable housing accommodations? I’m 100% sure my daughter has never looked at what makes one living arrangement more desirable than another at UChi. More work.

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@tutututututuru Yes, you do. There’s an additional information section where you can specify anything else. I actually put down like 6 housing choices in case the first three didn’t work…then I got my first choice lol. I deposited as soon as I got ivy decisions b/c my parents also wouldn’t let me deposit before then. So don’t worry.

I’m a prospective math/cs/(still deciding between several things) triple major. First two quarters I took hum/civ/honors cs/honors calc. Next quarter I’m taking intro to linguistics/an art history class/third quarter CS/honors calc.

@Greta65 I think it’s unlikely that she’ll get Snitchcock if she deposits after April, but she’ll definitely get I-House which has a similar nerdy culture and close houses.

Where you live isn’t a huge deal, honestly. Lots of people shuffle around and changing houses isn’t impossible but most people are happy with where they end up.

I don’t think my friends at other schools are less stressed than us, I just think they try to pretend they aren’t. At other schools there’s a huge discrepancy between the image they project and the reality of how stressed they are. See: Floating Duck Syndrome at Stanford, the suicides at Penn, [this[/url] rant about Columbia, etc. etc. There’s no culture of pretension at UChicago. Winter quarter is awful and we say it. This leads to everyone thinking we’re miserable and stressed - we’re not. Or at least not any more than college students as a whole, who, whenever you survey them anonymously, give a [url=<a href=“http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2004-18956-000%5Dpretty”>http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2004-18956-000]pretty dismal picture](Going to an Ivy League School Sucks) of their mental state.

Also consider that UChicago attracts the kind of kids who take really intense workloads. There’s a culture of working really really hard at school. One guy in my house spent the entire quarter complaining that he accidentally took too many easy classes - and we wasn’t humble bragging about it either. He was bored out of his mind. That’s just the kind of school UChicago is. I think it’s true that we willingly take harder schedules on average than people at other schools, and observers think it’s the schools fault.

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On the form for housing, did you rank the hall or the Houses within them? How did you decide which choices were best for you? Apologies if I am misusing any terms!

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@likefireworks You can rank halls/dorms, not houses. You are randomly put in a house in a certain dorm. Houses change a lot depending on who’s in it so there’s no way you could possibly make an informed decision.

@MurphyBrown Very few people party during the week here. As for doing other things, it’s difficult because literally everyone else is busy studying and doesn’t have large chunks of free time…unless you want to go by yourself which is a lot less appealing. Obviously you can find things to occupy your time but I just thought it was very indicative of the attitude here that he was expecting/hoping to spend most of the week working and was annoyed when he wasn’t.

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So does everybody take 4 courses at a time? Or is there a rhythm to that? E.g do it while you’re a first year, avoid it as a thesis-writing senior, not possible when studying abroad…

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I think it varies. My kids and their friends basically took four courses every quarter. One of my kids took three courses one quarter to help him do better, but he was bored and it didn’t help his grades at all. I think most of the study-abroad programs are only three credits for a quarter. I assume there are kids who take the minimum number of courses, but I never met any. Maybe some of the pre-meds, or kids who know they are aiming for law school, but other students will think very poorly of someone they suspect of trying to maximize GPA rather than intellectual growth. There is lots of double- and triple-majoring, and it would be hard to do that without taking four courses almost every quarter.The modal number of credits at graduation is 46 (vs. the 42-credit minimum), or at least I remember seeing that somewhere.

Basically the population of kids who are accepted at the University of Chicago and choose to enroll there is a population of kids who find it hard to turn down the opportunity to take more classes at the University of Chicago.

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Yeah, my daughter’s a member of the young Stakhanovite club herself, so she’s assuming 4 and scoffs at my suggestion that she consider 3 first semester while she checks out ECs and figures out how demanding the academic workload is. That said, at her age, I scoffed at similar advice (to take survey courses rather than Jr-Sr electives freshman year) and I was right about what I needed to do to have college live up to my expectations, LOL!

I wish more syllabi were online – all the complaints about the stress of the quarter system make me wonder whether courses are appropriately scaled-down. From the little I’ve seen, they do appear to be (in which case, 4 courses seems utterly reasonable). At JHU, where I taught, kids routinely took 5 per semester (goal/excuse was double-majoring) but I think faculty typically assumed the required 4 and set workload accordingly. Not a pretty picture from any POV.

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It depends I think.

I have heard different kinds of stories from very stressful to having a lot of free time.

First two quarters every one has to take humanity and most students take some kinds of Calculus (Analysis). Considering the credentials of students (and application essay writing) the materials are not hard but very time consuming. There will be a lot of readings for humanity and many p-sets for math. So those two courses can easily add up to 30 hours per week (including classroom time).

If a foreign language course is required it will be relatively less time consuming so let’s say 10 hours per week.

The fourth one is the deal maker or breaker IMO. If it is a hard science (physics or chemistry) it can easily take 15 or 20 hours per week (including labs). If it is a less hard science (natural science sequence) it will take less time, say 10 hours per week (including labs).

For 4 courses it can be 60 hours per week or 50 hours per week. Some students place out the math or science courses so they can take easy or difficult courses by choice.

The extracurricular activities should be considered too.

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The problem with planning to take three courses during first year is that you can wind up with nothing that interests you. Everyone basically takes Hum and some sort of Math first year; lots of people take Sosc, too; people who are thinking of medical school or any science major basically have to start at least one core lab science; people who are thinking of Econ and can’t place out of them have to take the pre-Econ courses; and people who haven’t placed out of language try to get that out of the way. One way or another, most people feel they need to take four courses, and lots of the rest want to even if they don’t need to, so they can take a course they want to take.

Note @eddi137 : Introductory foreign language courses are very, very time-consuming – fast-moving and lots of memorization and drill. Probably equivalent to a lab science. There is a lot of variation in the time demands of the first-year math courses, depending on which you take. Also, many majors require the third quarter of calculus (although some people place out of the first (two) quarter(s)), and if you drop Hum after two quarters you usually have to take one of the arts classes to keep pace on the core.

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Regarding the foreign language course many students should have taken some foreign language courses in high school - usually 3 or 4 years. If a student takes the foreign language course she has already learned at high school but for some reason she has not placed it out it will be relatively less time consuming. I think there are different levels of courses for foreign language requirement. If you take one year course you pass.

Of course if a student starts a new foreign language course at the College it will definitely be very challenging.

Yes, for the third quarter a student has to take either Humanity or art course to fulfill the Core. The art course requires a lot of readings too. By that time the math may be gone (151 and 152 or 152 and 153) for some or many no math or science majors.

Depending on individual’s capability and attitude 4 courses should be very doable. Actually most students take between 10 and 12 courses per year through 4 years. But I would like to point out there are indeed students who take very challenge courses and are a little bit stressed out during the first two quarters. A student can register for 4 courses and drop or switch to other course before the end of the third week. The drawback of switching is when that happens a third of a quarter has already gone.

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Yeah it varies. I’m not planning on taking 3 courses a quarter here and I’m hardly alone…

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My son also won’t consider taking “only” 3 courses in a quarter. He says that there are more courses that interest him than he will have time to take over his 4 years. A couple of quarters, he’s tried to take 4 courses and audit a 5th.

@MurphyBrown Not sure that typical UChi students max out on courses hoping to graduate early. At least in my son’s class, it’s to explore the vast offerings that the school has to offer.

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The “there will be nothing you love unless you take 4 courses first year” issue seems real to me (and part of the reason I was thinking back to my own course selections freshman year). Of course it’s also a reason why I’m not a fan of core curricula, but I obviously lost that argument – big time, LOL! Thanks for all the feedback – glad to hear 4 is or can be manageable.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how intense the ASL classes are for an almost-beginner?

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Ok so im going to a high top tier college. And im just kinda nervous about the difficulty of the academics. I can imagine Uchicago is pretty tough in that area. So honestly, are colleges really that much harder than high school classes? And how do you feel about the competition with all the other smart kids?

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@GraniteStateMom He isn’t kidding. There are a lot of cool courses here. Let him know that if there’s an elective he wants to take but doesn’t have room for many professors will let him audit the class. You can take your 4 classes and then audit as many as you want, though you would need the time…

@AlphaX Yes, it’s harder than high school. A lot harder than high school. But that’s okay, you will be fine. They admitted you because you can do it, and you can. If you’re nervous you can take easier classes and only 3 classes autumn quarter of your first year to ease into it (that’s fairly common). And it really doesn’t feel competitive. It feels more like us vs grades than us vs us. The material is difficult and moves fast and we have to study together to beat the grades.

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The key thing about the transition from HS to college is that you have to learn how to take responsibility for your own education in a way that will probably involve a very different kind of time management than what you learned/experienced/practiced in HS. That said, you are actually in a position where you do have a lot more control (more choice wrt courses and scheduling, fewer assessments/deadlines, less time spent in class) and a lot less overhead (no family obligations, everything within walking distance). But it’s easy to fritter away unstructured time and to procrastinate. And, of course, there are lots of activities other than schoolwork that will compete for your time and attention.

Also, depending on where you went to high school (and which profs you take in college) expectations can be very different – e.g. an essay with a thesis like “X and Y are different” probably won’t get you very far – you need to analyze/characterize the differences and explain why they matter. In general, you don’t just prove you’ve done/understood the reading, you show what you can do with it.

But Hyde Snark is absolutely right – both that you will be able to do the work and that you’ll get by with (probably more than) a little help from your friends. It’s also worth remembering that faculty and TAs are there to help. Office hours are really worth taking advantage of when you have questions.

[[Oh and if you’d like a book that does a decent job of providing strategies for addressing the time-management issues, Cal Newport’s How to Become a Straight-A Student is worthwhile despite the cheesy title.]]

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@MurphyBrown There are at least four different levels of math classes for freshman at the College: Elem Function and Calculus, Calculus, Honors Calculus,and Analysis. The Calculus and its honors version are the norm I think.

From your description your S can definitely take Calculus (starting at 151). It teaches some proofs at the beginning and becomes more practical after that. Since it is a quarter system the pace would be faster than that in high school. A little bit preparation should be helpful. Reviewing whatever he has learned at high school should be good enough. Or he can preview the book which is going to be used at the College. I do not know exactly the textbook name but he can ask math department undergraduate adviser.

I have heard the environment is friendly and cooperative among first-years. They discuss and do homework together sometimes or many times. It makes sense since most people take the same courses. There is also a tutoring service called Harper Tutoring which upperclassmen help underclassmen on their homework. Of course it is free. I think your S will be fine on math. Good luck!

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There are, in fact, effectively eight levels of math open to first year students:

– A remedial pre-calculus class that does not satisfy the math core requirement but that prepares unprepared students for calculus. This is generally a very small class.

– I think that there is a non-calculus statistics class that actually satisfies the math core requirement, but that fact is not advertised much to students because the Math Department thinks everyone should take calculus. I don’t know if the pre-med requirements have changed yet, but if/when they do this will probably become a significant option for non-science-major med students. Unless they have done away with it.

– 130s calculus. This meets the core requirement and pre-med requirement, but not generally the requirements for any hard science or high-math major. It is significantly less proof-oriented than other calculus classes. There is a proof class provided for students who take this sequence and then want to “catch up” with more demanding math classes or take a math-heavy major.

– 150s calculus. This is the normal calculus class, and probably the most popular one. Students can place into the first, second, or third quarter, and all are offered out of sequence every quarter. The third quarter is significantly more proof-oriented and is a prerequisite for many math-heavy majors.

– 160s honors calculus. A more rigorous, proof-oriented version of calculus. This is basically the signature course of the Math Department, and they try to get as many kids as possible to take it, unless they are clearly not ready for it or clearly beyond it. Students who have taken AP Calculus (either version) will generally be offered this class unless they have done a lot of post-calculus math. Those who take it seem to work harder and enjoy it more than students in 150s, and the teachers are generally better and the grading more friendly. You can’t start in the middle, you have to start at the beginning. The first two quarters satisfy the math core requirement; the third satisfies additional requirements for math-heavy majors. Students with high grades in 160s are eligible to take honors analysis as second years.

– IBL 160s honors calculus. A few sections of 160s, open only to students who have 5s on the AP Calculus BC test, are taught as “inquiry-based learning” classes, where essentially the teacher guides the students as a group to develop proofs on their own, rather than giving them any of their information in lecture or reading form. Students who take this tend to find it completely stimulating and engaging but time consuming.

– advanced classes other than honors analysis. Students who test into honors analysis can take other higher level classes rather than honors analysis if they want, most often regular analysis or the IBL version of analysis (which covers less ground than honors analysis).

– honors analysis. This is the Chicago entry into the “most difficult math class in the world” sweepstakes, an equivalent to Harvard’s Math 55, except half of the students are second-years who aced honors calculus. I think this uses IBL method, too. Reputed to take 30-40 hours/week. A lifelong badge of honor, which some students who could take it decline. About 10 first-years per year generally qualify for this.

One of my kids came in having taken AP Calculus BC, but done terribly on the test, and interested at the time in a science major. The math advisors made a strong pitch for him to take 160s calculus. He opted for 150s instead. The first quarter was very easy for him, and he did well without too much effort. The second quarter was harder, and the third quarter ate him up.

I think that is a mischaracterization of 150s calculus. The University of Chicago as an institution, and especially its Math Department, believes strongly in proofs, and all majors that involve a lot of math require a strong grounding in proof-based math. I believe 150s calculus becomes more proof-heavy as it proceeds, and its third quarter is intended to qualify students for upper-level proof-based math courses.

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An anecdote about math at the University of Chicago:

Both of my kids were in social science master’s degree programs at the same time, and both had to take the basic statistics class for social science (other than economics) graduate students (including PhD students). One was at Chicago, the other at Brand X University. At Brand X University, the text for the course was the user manual for the most popular social science statistical software package, and essentially everyone learned how to use the software and what the various functions were for. No actual math was involved. The Chicago class was entirely proof-based and consisted of developing and proving the functions in the software package. For students who did not have the equivalent of Math 163 in their background, there was a three-week pre-registration full-time boot camp on linear algebra and delta-epsilon proofs.