Just so we’re clear, there are several very mainstream Christian groups in the US who are far more anti-gay (based on support for marriage equality) than Islam. (And since this person was an American Muslim, American Muslims’ views on homosexuality are what’s important.)
http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/views-about-same-sex-marriage/
Why does the news media feel it is appropriate to do a timeline with graphics of what happened? This can be used by the next person who may be planning something similar. I am more worried by the next person not only being a copy cat but trying to exceed what was done here.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-nightclub-shooting-20160614-snap-story.html
Mateen said that he wanted America to stop bombing ‘his country’. Even having been born here, educated here, worked here, Afghanistan was more ‘his country’.
@sylvan8798 I agree that comment from mooooop was uncalled for and very offensive. I hope we are never in competition for which tragedy is worse. Death is death, fear is fear and grief is grief.
When nations - based on predominant religious beliefs - codify death for the sin of homosexuality, polling for gay marriage isn’t even in it.
Dunno know about the views of those ‘mainstream Christian groups’, but I seriously doubt they include any that will go on attribution for seeing gays dead for being… gay.
@catahoula, there at least 2 Baptist ministers who said they were happy and they wish more had died. Baptist is pretty mainstream.
There is the group here in the US that has gone to countries on the African continent fomenting hatred of LGBTQ people. Their leader has endorsed many a candidate in the US.
You’re wrong. This morning I posted about a baptist preacher (I refuse to use the honorable title “pastor”) who was giddy about the massacre and was only sorry that more Pulse patrons weren’t killed.
There was a large spike in anti-Muslim hate crimes right after San Bernardino, and sadly, I suspect we’ll have another spike now. Most of us have also seen the articles on fundamentalist preachers’ statements after the attacks. In an article on one of them, I found it particularly disturbing to read that his followers laughed after he said that the tragedy was that more didn’t die, and he was upset the shooter didn’t finish the job. Then there was the Lt. Gov. of Texas who tweeted “Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.”
You’ll hear the argument by some that these fundamentalists are not physically killing people – as if it’s OK. But as one of the Orlando victim’s friends said today, there’s no such thing as passive, non-violent homophobia. I think the same can be said about hate speech. These people may not be pulling the trigger, setting off a bomb, or throwing anyone off a buildings, but we’re fooling ourselves if we fail to recognize the part they play in the thousands hate crimes and suicides by gay kids every year.
The local news has reported attacks on two different young men leaving gay bars in the last 2 months. One had a knife held to his face and was kicked and beaten while the attackers hurled gay slurs. Another woke up in an intensive care unit covered in bruises, his face obviously beaten, and has no memory of the attack. When I hear these things are still happening in 2016, I wonder how many such attacks are still taking place in cities and towns across the country. How many are never reported out of fear of being “outed?”
I mentioned previously that I was motivated to go to the parade Sunday after hearing about the shooting in Orlando. I also went to a candlelight vigil last night. We were told that city officials and law enforcement met early Sunday morning and came close to canceling the parade after the guy with all the weapons (who said he was in town for the parade) was arrested. They spoke of the need to be extra aware of your surroundings and to not be afraid to speak up if you see someone or something that doesn’t look right. It might just be a backpack. Remember Boston.
I understand people’s fears and respect their decisions not to attend these things. I can’t say I wasn’t looking around me a lot more and paying close attention both Sunday and last tonight. We probably all need to do that now when in any large crowd. The police are well trained to protect us, but they can’t be everywhere all the time. And I know I’m not making any real difference by attending myself. I’m just one person, but I didn’t know what else to do, so being a minuscule part of a larger whole standing up against hate what better than nothing.
Jym626, just read the last paragraph of DonnaL’s post in question. It pretty much sums it up. 
I’d say the distinction would be that they’re vilified for their views. Roundly, by anyone that matters.
For those who can’t see that difference, I’ll point out: if an entire Protestant denomination has to bear the sins of 2 ministers, Islam is getting a pass. An enormous one, from a whole lot of people.
Just my humble opinion.
Wonder when his wife is going to lawyer up.
Just as it’s inappropriate to label all Muslims as bad, I think that it’s just as inappropriate to assume that " mainstream Christians " are represented by the clergy referenced on this thread. There are people in all religions that many of us would be hesitant to say represent the views of our religion.
MODERATOR’S NOTE: I deleted moooop’s post and responses to it.
Speaking of bravery, here’s a sad story about a 49-year old mother who was at the club dancing with her son, and took a bullet for him. She died; he survived.
The Terms of Service are linked below for all to see, and discussing moderation on the public boards is clearly stated to be a violation. I would also point out that OPs do not “own” a thread, which I think is what was meant as opposed to “forum” in a couple of posts I deleted. They were deleted because they were in response to an “illegal” and off topic post.
@musicprnt I say this with no reservation: we (the USA) must, MUST, be better.
Every day we must move our society toward true equality. It’s not an easy road. It’s not a short road. But it is a road that will be traveled. By all of us.
Personally, I would be content with a world without any religion, but that isn’t what we have.
Im watching CNN, and I am always amazed at the strength of of the interviewees. There was a young lady describing them all being jammed in the handicap stall, and pressing themselves against the door. She lost her younger cousin that night, and I am amazed at her composure. I would be a big messy puddle of tears.
@soccerguy315:
I agree totally, the point is that if we are going to say “well, if gays think they have it bad here, how about in Saudi Arabia” when talking about the US it is trying to say that it is okay that LGBT people face the problems they still do, because, well, ‘it could be worse’. it is a copout. One of the prime reasons the US has been able to make the strides it has is because of the separation of Church and State, it has allowed the dialog that has allowed gay rights to move forward and also, not coincidentally, to have allowed religious groups to learn and change, too. One of the problems with Islamic countries is that Islam is an integrated social and religious framework and the concept of seperation of church and state is totally alien, so what you have are places where that dialog can’t even happen because the religious authorities have that kind of power. Russia is another example of that, the Russian Orthodox church is rabidly homophobic and because of that LGBT people in Russia are in deep trouble.
If his wife is charged and convicted, who takes care of the little boy? I hope it’s not the crazy grandfather.
I agree, and I think likewise it is not fair to say because there is not full equality in the U.S., that the situation is similar to those other countries.
We are very fortunate to have separation of church and state ingrained in our country.
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This guy was raised in the U.S., so it is entirely possible that he was surveying / researching (if you want to call it that) various terror groups over a period of years while trying to “find himself”. Hezbollah is pretty prominent, and ISIL might not have been around yet when he first went looking. I’m not sure why a confused gay person would just decide to claim to be an ISIL disciple… that doesn’t really make sense to me.
I think it is also entirely possible that as a gay person, he was confused and didn’t know what to do in a household with a father that is obviously a wackjob. Perhaps he turned to his religion, to try to “look for guidance” or whatever religious people do, though by digging deeper into the hardcore groups of Islam, only found out that he was a failure for being gay, so he decided to do his part to help kill people that “don’t belong”, knowing that in doing so he would himself die (and thus, making the world more “pure” (or whatever term you want to use)).
Anyway, I’m sure his phone and any computers are being analyzed and combed through already, so maybe they will shine some more light on his motivations.
Also, not that long ago, I feel like all the questions about the watch lists and stuff was “how can you put people on there with no proof?” “how do you get off the list?” “how can the government do this?” etc and now it has quickly morphed to “why aren’t more people on these lists???”
you have to have rules and stick to them.
edit: that said, I hope they find something they can charge the father with. Guy is clearly an ■■■■■■■ and most likely contributed significantly to this attack. http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/orlando-club-needed-better-security-says-gunman-s-father-1.2684117