Those responsible citizens ought to back reasonable gun control - that’s the decent thing to do. But since they block every reasonable attempt, I highly doubt their decency on this issue.
@busdriver I agree that we need to address homophobia, which obviously and tragically still thrives. And dealing with terrorism is the greatest challenge of our times.
But while we figure all of that out, we must stop allowing such easy access to firepower. There is no rational reason for any civilian to have the kind of gun the Orlando shooter used.
“on cable TV news and the Internet that don’t even mention that this was an LGBT nightclub.”
I must be watching a different cable channel then others. That it was a LGBT nightclub was being talked about when I turned my tv on at 9am and I’ve seen numerous LBGT leaders from Orlando, Congress etc being interviewed and speaking out about this being a hate crime against the LGBTQ community…
My point @DonnaL is there are many factors which went into the gunman’s decision . It’s difficult to know his motives so soon after the event. My statement was not meant to minimize the tragedy against the LGBT community . It’s important to try to understand all of the factors in order to prevent events like from this happening again. Unfortunately, they will happen again.
Of course they’ll happen again. If the wholesale slaughter of 5 and 6 year olds gunned down in their classrooms did not lead to any meaningful gun control, this certainly won’t either. Our violence against ourselves may very well be this culture’s undoing.
MODERATOR’S NOTE: Please don’t turn this thread into a gun control discussion so it can remain open. Thanks!
Wait, how was he not arrested after beating his wife? Also, what suddenly drove him to ISIS support? According to the WaPo linked above :
And I agree. He drove all the way to the club from another city, he bought the guns a week beforehand. He planned this. The maggot. I’m so upset I’m having trouble typing this. I pray for the victims’ families and hope they find the strength to get through this harrowing trial. May the victims rest in peace
“The worst mass shooting in American history.”
I can’t quite wrap my head around that as someone who grew up in Winter Park, which is an Orlando suburb. Some are calling for the vigil tonight at Lake Eola to be cancelled since the police are stretched thin and others are saying go anyway so I am not sure what to do.
The coverage I am watching is not debating whether or not this was a hate crime directly at the GLTB community. It was. No doubt. But it was also an attack on America and America’s freedoms and prosperity.
We just have to be careful not to lump people together into groups. Not all Muslims are anything. We can’t eliminate crimes and tragedies like this. We have significantly degraded ISIS too, so, there is that. It is a war. We look at it based on the right we think we are doing but others see the USA actions far differently.
All the cities I have lived in have had crime. WP/Orlando, Tampa (for one semester), Tallahassee, Coral Gables (which is a suburb of Miami, of course), El Paso, TX. Orlando is by far the safest city I have ever lived in. It amazes me that both the killers this weekend traveled here from other cities to do their deeds. Oh, and the two men he allegedly saw kissing, that enraged him, were in Miami not Orlando not that it really matters. He was inspired by ISIS and by the brothers who did the Boston Marathon bombing but not radicalized by ISIS.
Sorry @emilybee, but that is Wonderland nonsense. What was the act? An attack. So an attack of terror is not a terrorist attack? We might as well outlaw words altogether since nothing means anything. Your attempt to set the definition for everyone later on is simply yours, not what is codified in the law. It was a terrorist attack and an act of terror.
I have to really disagree with your attempt to turn this into a gun control issue, @LasMa. As someone else pointed out, they could have bombed the building or set it on fire, or obtained poison gas as has happened a few times in Japan and elsewhere. It just is not the central issue in this case. Not 100% unrelated either, but not the lead.
Isis often attracts and/or recruits young Muslim men who have a history of being “disaffected” but not particularly religious. They’ve done it in France and Belgium, so why not here?
And now there’s this, not surprisingly: http://www.advocate.com/crime/2016/6/12/westboro-sings-shooters-keep-comin-around-bodies-still-club
There’s no need to give those sub-humans publicity.
@MaineLonghorn told us in post #165 to stop talking about gun control. The rest of us have abided by her wishes.
*No, she said " Please don’t turn this thread into a gun control discussion…" and I am pointing out that I agree with that. - FC *
No doubt the target was deliberately selected. But by whom? … and that’s where motive comes into play.
If the guy picked it himself, that answers to one set of motives, but it was an isolated event and we should react one way.
If it was picked by someone else, with the intent to make people nervous in the US and to play to a certain audience in other areas, that seems like an entirely different set of motives, and the reaction really needs to be different.
I hate to have to spell this out, but right this moment the US is engaged in combat operations in that great sandbox east of the Med. The “other guys” are not your neighbor’s kid who discovered chess last autumn and now prowls online as “Lasker2.0” - they are smart, clever, and more than capable of selecting targets based on measurable criteria.
So jumping to a motive for the shooting is at best counterproductive, and at worst, quite dangerous.
According to CNN:
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that this was islamic terrorism.
Good data points, but I don’t think they answer the question of whether or not he acted on his own or was given specific directions …
Gather the data first, then make a decision. Stuff just works better that way : - )
GMT, do you believe that it has to be either/or? His father says that he was very upset by seeing two men kissing in IIRC Miami not long ago. His ex wife says that he wasn’t religious. Isn’t it possible that he was motivated by both ideology and LGBT-hatred?
Read The Quran…you can download it for Free on Amazon. One is never too old to learn.
The names of the victims are starting to be released. It was Latin Night at the club, so it’s not surprising that all the names so far are Latino. Most of them in their early 20s.
Sure. It likely was a sick, twisted “two-fer” for him.