I break out of this mold that YOU created

<p>I was told since the seventh grade that cheating would get me kicked out of NHS and Beta, and that would absolutely kill me. I personally don't understand how it's cheating when a friend copied my definitions that I copied verbatim from the back of the textbook. In fact, that was the assignment. I personally see it as helping my friend save a few calories, but whatever.</p>

<p>Flash forward to now. With the exception of Mu Alpha Theta, I absolutely refuse to join Beta, NHS, or any other NHS spawn. I'm an odd student indeed. I enjoy the distinction of being the only student in my APUSH class to not be in Beta. I also told my APUSH teacher that I have no intentions of taking the AP test.</p>

<p>Early this school year, I was invited to join the Beta Club. I saw the subject, and, without bothering to read the rest of it, I balled it up and threw it in the trashcan. Two weeks later, they sent me another invitation, saying that since I have not responded, I must've not received the first invitation.</p>

<p>Why would I want to join Beta? Why should I join a club that half of my class is going to be in for the sole purpose of doing community service? I can do community service on my own, and I don't feel the need to "earn points" to demonstrate the extent of my activities. Besides, most of the people who joined the club only want it as another item to put on their college resume.</p>

<p>What about NHS? I don't care if I get invited or not. Why would I want to join a club full of people I will never get along with? And what is their purpose? Honestly, it's either super secret and its members are sworn to secrecy, or it's not worth talking about.</p>

<p>And the APUSH thing? I love being asked, "Why are you even taking this class?" Well excuse me for taking a class because I want to learn in an approach best suited for me. What if I don't want to take honors and constantly make useless timelines that I'll never look at? And the best part? My teacher can't teach and hasn't had anyone score above a 4 in recent history (actually, my teacher said she hasn't had a student score a 5 yet, so I'm assuming the best score is a 4). So with that being said, why should I waste $82 on a "maybe I'll get a good score?" This is just me, but I rather pay in full for "I KNOW I'm getting something out of this" instead of "maybe I can get some credit for this."</p>

<p>One last thing: People who make straight A's are fully capable of getting suspended. I find it offensive that administrators think that, just because I can make good grades that I am perfectly incapable of getting myself suspended. It's just as bad as any other good student stereotype out there.</p>

<p>P.S. I'm Asian. Shocker, isn't it?</p>

<p>So who else seem to break out of their mold? And how badly will it kill my application to not include national honor societies besides Mu Alpha Theta?</p>

<p>Kudos!!! 100% with you man. The thing about cheating that also bugs me is that people make a big deal out of it when its really cheating. Lets say I copied the HW, but who cares, who is getting hurt here. </p>

<p>We don't have BETA but we do have Key Club, and ya people join just too put it on their apps. Come for the first 5 min and leave. I on the other hand get really psyched about it. xD </p>

<p>You can't take the AP test for 14? Not low income? </p>

<p>They think that because they assume that we wouldn't want to get into trouble since it would jepordize their chances. But I would prefer a kid with straight A's getting arrested for smoking a blunt. Shows that he is normal and is not afraid of things.</p>

<p>K, my 2C. </p>

<p>I'm from the Russian side, sophmore 2 AP and 3 H. College: USMA
******I say make your own club devoted to service in one field and to people who care about the people they help.</p>

<p>Honor societies are fun. Our NHS chapter either tries to initiate bonding activities or talk about how we're going to take over the world. Of course, you have to get along with the people in order to enjoy yourself. </p>

<p>And I don't get the APUSH thing. Are they criticizing you for not taking an honors class? Are they criticizing you for the taking the AP test? If the latter, then I'm not surprised. I could've gotten guaranteed college credit for my APUSH class, but I opted to take the test instead. I wanted to measure what I've really learned, and I wanted to challenge myself. Last year I had a AP European History class, and the teacher was god awful, being in his first year teaching the class and also being a stubborn jack***. In fact, I came in knowing more history than he did. Yet I still took the test, because I want to challenge myself, to see if I could do with minimal guidance from the instructor. And nearly all of those who took the AP Euro test with me got 5s (so from what I can see your APUSH class's motivation is in question too, not just the teacher's ability). Consequently, then, you shouldn't be surprised if people criticize you for it. If you don't think the class prepared you enough, that's fine. However, it seems you claim that taking the test would somehow compromise your learning, when the test isn't part of your learning but a field where you prove it. Furthermore, many people in my classes took the AP test regardless of the teacher's quality; they wanted to make sure their time in class wasn't wasted, so they attempted to challenge themselves to the test, learning themselves what the teacher couldn't teach. I personally took a few AP tests in fields I was shaky about. So, it won't be surprising if people question your decision when they compare you to people who do take the test. Those people didn't waste $82, they gambled it on the "maybe." They might have won, they might have not. The thing is, they took comfort in that they tried. I'm not sure what you're looking for; do you want to be respected for not even trying? It's okay not taking the test, but don't think that it'll reflect favourably upon you.</p>

<p>More importantly though, dude, it doesn't seem as if you're breaking the mold very much. You first got offended by a honor society and decided to distance yourself. Then you didn't take the AP test, which is actually a very, very common thing, at least in my school. Then you got suspended. I'm not sure you're actually breaking much mold here, as getting suspended, not taking the AP test or or not caring about honor societies is very common. Well, I guess that most people would rather get into NHS and then never attend rather than outright rejection, but that's not much of a difference. Honestly, it seems to me that you're breaking out a lot less than what you think, from what you described here anyways.</p>

<p>That being said, I'm not sure why breaking out of the mold is so great. For certain people it is, but I think the mold is there for a reason. I didn't reject offers to join an honor society. I lose nothing by doing so, and I get certain opportunities to hang out with my buddies and meet new people. I don't get suspended because I don't do many things that get me suspended. And I take the AP test because I see no real reason not to. If this is staying in the mold, then frankily I'm not sure why you would want to break it. </p>

<p>Oh and Stesla, why you do you prefer kids who smoke? Why does smoking make you... normal (and if it makes you normal, isn't that becoming the mold rather than breaking it?)? Why does smoking show courage? And of course people would get *<strong><em>ed about cheating. If I worked hard and got the same score as the guy who did nothing, I'd be *</em></strong>ed too. Additionally, school is a place of education, and teaching students not to cheat is education as well.</p>

<p>
[quote]
You can't take the AP test for 14? Not low income?

[/quote]
It's not the 4 that bothers me. It's that it's required to take the VA History SOL at the course, and SAT II's are required for admission in colleges, so I'll be taking that too. AP testing for APUSH, on the other hand, is not required. The fact that my teacher can't teach is even more discouraging. And when my school gives out those tests, I won't even be in the school to take it.</p>

<p>And besides, I have other things I could spend $82 on. Like using it towards summer English at a CC that actually teaches me how to write. I dropped down from honors English this year, because my teacher has unreasonably high standards, caught us unprepared, and dislikes non-Christians. I'm not learning anything in CP English, and for a college PREP class, I'm reviewing where to put my commas...</p>

<p>
[quote]
******I say make your own club devoted to service in one field and to people who care about the people they help.

[/quote]
Our activities coordinator is weird. The only clubs he'll allow is the cliche NHS's and academic organizations. Besides, I'm on two robotics teams, and build season is right around the corner, and I'm getting a job. Yeah...</p>

<p>
[quote]
Honor societies are fun. Our NHS chapter either tries to initiate bonding activities or talk about how we're going to take over the world. Of course, you have to get along with the people in order to enjoy yourself.

[/quote]
My school is odd then. No one knows what we do in NHS's besides tutor and gets points. All the members in my school have to say is "Oh, it's just another slack club... looks great on my application."</p>

<p>
[quote]
And I don't get the APUSH thing. Are they criticizing you for not taking an honors class? Are they criticizing you for the taking the AP test? If the latter, then I'm not surprised. I could've gotten guaranteed college credit for my APUSH class, but I opted to take the test instead. I wanted to measure what I've really learned, and I wanted to challenge myself. Last year I had a AP European History class, and the teacher was god awful, being in his first year teaching the class and also being a stubborn jack***. In fact, I came in knowing more history than he did. Yet I still took the test, because I want to challenge myself, to see if I could do with minimal guidance from the instructor. And nearly all of those who took the AP Euro test with me got 5s (so from what I can see your APUSH class's motivation is in question too, not just the teacher's ability).

[/quote]
You know what's sad? I was told if I wanted a 5 on the test, I should've taken 20th Century history. It's taught by the most popular teacher in our school, and it's by far the most popular elective, after foreign languages for graduation and drivers ed for your license. I had to decide between that or intro to engineering. Guess which one I took.</p>

<p>You're right to question my class' motivation. About 90% of the students use the class to complain about their English teacher. And in our school, it's expected that if you take an AP class, you'll take the test too.</p>

<p>The teacher basically outlines the book. She stands, she regurgitates what we should've read. Our homework is to outline the book. The questions she gave us can easily be answered by copying a paragraph verbatim from the book. We get a DBQ practice once every nine weeks, and she fails to grade it in time before grade closes. It may sound like it, but I'm not exaggerating any of this.</p>

<p>APUSH class should be about challenging ideas. I challenged the teacher that the Civil War was not really about slavery, and the north was only using that as a front for an invasion, and that many correlations can be made from the Revolutionary War. She was like, "Ok, if that's what you think." End of discussion. I mean, com'on. For a class whose corresponding test has a writing section, we don't really do much writing. I can do a lot of "critical thinking" from this, and she's like "Ok, that's what you think." Is that not discouraging?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Consequently, then, you shouldn't be surprised if people criticize you for it. If you don't think the class prepared you enough, that's fine. However, it seems you claim that taking the test would somehow compromise your learning, when the test isn't part of your learning but a field where you prove it.

[/quote]
No no, you misunderstood me. I don't care about the test. I took the AP History because it was read, outline, discuss. Honors VA History was cut, paste, and draw timelines. If that's honors, then I can't imagine what CP history is. I learn best by reading. Making timelines is not an effective way for me to learn anything.</p>

<p>And I want to learn what actually happened. The only thing I learned this year is that people would vote on a presidential candidate with no stand on any issue, and apparently having silk underwear is a bad thing. Everything else I already knew from.... pre-high school history classes or the history channel. The possibility that America is founded on illegal immigration? Of course, we didn't even touch on that. =.= I learn more history from current events than actual history class. Does anyone else see a problem with that?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Furthermore, many people in my classes took the AP test regardless of the teacher's quality; they wanted to make sure their time in class wasn't wasted, so they attempted to challenge themselves to the test, learning themselves what the teacher couldn't teach. I personally took a few AP tests in fields I was shaky about. So, it won't be surprising if people question your decision when they compare you to people who do take the test. Those people didn't waste $82, they gambled it on the "maybe." They might have won, they might have not. The thing is, they took comfort in that they tried. I'm not sure what you're looking for; do you want to be respected for not even trying? It's okay not taking the test, but don't think that it'll reflect favourably upon you.

[/quote]
I'm not a gambler, so like I said, that's "just me." I rather be not respected for even trying because at least I'm honest about it. Half of the people taking the test is only doing it because they are brainwashed to think they are obligated to do so</p>

<p>
[quote]
More importantly though, dude, it doesn't seem as if you're breaking the mold very much. You first got offended by a honor society and decided to distance yourself. Then you didn't take the AP test, which is actually a very, very common thing, at least in my school. Then you got suspended. I'm not sure you're actually breaking much mold here, as getting suspended, not taking the AP test or or not caring about honor societies is very common. Well, I guess that most people would rather get into NHS and then never attend rather than outright rejection, but that's not much of a difference. Honestly, it seems to me that you're breaking out a lot less than what you think, from what you described here anyways.

[/quote]
We go to very different schools then. The typical "good student" at my school get good grades (obviously), try to get in as many NHS's and clubs as possible (that, apparently, don't do much), not because it interests them, but because "it looks good on college applications," do not even get detention, and takes a bunch of AP classes and accompanying tests. Not many people take an AP class and then not take the test in our school. Maybe about two kids max per class. Teachers (and classmates) are usually so absolutely shocked that I can drop and F-bomb every now and then. I'm not sure how you would classify that, but I'd say most kids in my classes fit perfectly in the stereotype of perfect students.</p>

<p>I mean, seriously, about half of my class has at least 3.0 GPA, which is basically the requirement for Beta. And I must've had at least 20 various people asked me why I wasn't in Beta. If I was the only person in my APUSH class (of at least 25 kids) to not be in it, that says something, doesn't it?</p>

<p>My suspension happened before I entered high school, but the sceanario would still be the same.</p>

<p>
[quote]
That being said, I'm not sure why breaking out of the mold is so great. For certain people it is, but I think the mold is there for a reason. I didn't reject offers to join an honor society. I lose nothing by doing so, and I get certain opportunities to hang out with my buddies and meet new people. I don't get suspended because I don't do many things that get me suspended. And I take the AP test because I see no real reason not to. If this is staying in the mold, then frankily I'm not sure why you would want to break it.

[/quote]
Despite what it may sound, but I don't make most of these decisions on an attempt to break out of it. Teachers keep telling me that I'm odd and unique, and they probably don't mean that in a good way either. My classmates tell me that I'm strange, weird, etc because I think differently, and obviously, when they tell me that, they never mean it in a good way.</p>

<p>This is a result of what happens when I can think clearly and decided to sit down and reflect about various things in life.</p>

<p>Not taking the AP exam(s) might be questionable to the admission officers regarding to your grade(s) in AP class(es).</p>

<p>Steslas, smoking a blunt is not considered "normal" or "average" of a typical teenager, or maybe its my high school only.</p>

<p>I think it's pretty cool that you're standing up for what you believe in. However I'm one of those kids in your AP US Class. Yeah I'm in NHS and Key Club mainly for college. It's sad, but most people take AP classes and stuff just for college and not to really learn. </p>

<p>IDK I say hate the game not the players. If you want to go to a good college then you have to do stuff like this. Nowadays I think that not just the smart people get into good colleges like it's supposed to be.</p>

<p>I admire the fact that you're standing up for what you believe in, but I think that your attitude is a little too 'I'm rebelling whether my straight A streak allows me or not.' I'm not trying to be mean, but did you ever think that you could study for the AP exam? If you're truly interested in the subject like you intimated, then why don't you just try to work a bit harder and get a 5?
As far as NHS, I can sympathize with the fact that you think it's not worth it. Honestly, I'm in NHS for my college application. Other clubs like Key Club however, those are for fun. You said you can do community service by yourself, and that makes it sound like an obligation. Community service is so much more than that, and in joining an organization they hope you'll realize that when hanging out with friends while helping others.
The whole cheating thing-it does hurt people. It isn't fair to kids who actually do their own work (admittedly, I am one of them). If it is so simple, then why can't your friend put in the ten minutes to do the assignment? Are they really so unbelievably busy that they can't open up the back of the book in the ten minutes before class and do the assignment? I doubt it. Homework isn't just a grade; it's a test. It helps you understand what you know and learn what you don't, and by them just copying something down from your paper without even reading it (which is what you're supposed to do) they aren't learning anything.
Sure, you can cheat an entire semester and get straight A's, but if you think someone will cover like that for you in the working world you're insane.</p>

<p>I didn't bother joining NHS. My school doesnt have a Key Club or Beta Club. I didn't have the grades for Mu Alpha Theta (straight As in math and I could have cared less in Pre Calc). This year my school made an English NHS and there was a huge rush to join it. I didn't bother. The only honors society I joined was Science NHS because I had already met the requirements and it has no extra work. I got into an Ivy League and another college just as good as an Ivy. I feel like colleges should realize that all of this is BS and that if a student doesn't want to join it, it just means that s/he doesn't want to waste his/her time dealing with all the BS. However, one can argue that most jobs have lots of BS (like meetings and stuff) and that you need to do all that crap or you get fired. It may be good training to become a conformist if you just join every honors society you can. </p>

<p>About the APUSH thing, if you do not feel that you will do well on the test, do not take it. If the colleges you are looking at require 5s for credit, then it makes no sense to take the test if you think you are only going to get a 3. However, it does look strange to take the class and not the test. Last year I took APUSH and gota 5 on the test and an 800 on the SATII. I felt taht those two scores helped paint a picture for colleges that history is one of my passions and while I will major in science, I plan to minor in history. People self study for tests, and you probably could self study to get a 5. I'm actually planning to be like you and not take my AP World test this year. The college I got into may give credit for World, but only if I get a 5 and it only counts as an elective, and not a distributional credit (so I have to take a social science class again to graduate). I decided that the work and money to get a 5 do not equal 1 credit that goes towards nothing.</p>

<p>This is also why I believe SATs are here to stay. Lots of people can get good grades. My school does not differentiate between a 100% and an 89.5 (both are As on the reportcard). Lots of kids do clubs just to get into college. The easiest way for a college to see who really is smart and who is faking it is with standardized tests. I have yet to see a stupid person get a 2300+ on the SAT. There are some smart people who score bellow their ablilities, but I havnt met any, and they usually shine in other parts of their application and still get into good colleges. The AP test can show that you actually have an interest in the subject. One reason lots of kids fail to get 5s is because they do not care beyond getting an A and having the class on the transcript. If you are truly interested in history, study on your own and get a 5 to stick it to your teacher and all the kids in your class who are just in it for college.</p>

<p>Just my $0.02</p>

<p>"I feel like colleges should realize that all of this is BS and that if a student doesn't want to join it, it just means that s/he doesn't want to waste his/her time dealing with all the BS. However, one can argue that most jobs have lots of BS (like meetings and stuff) and that you need to do all that crap or you get fired. It may be good training to become a conformist if you just join every honors society you can."</p>

<p>Pretty much my thoughts exactly. I never joined any of the NHS/Key Club/Arista/other BS honor societies for pretty much that reason. If a college cares that I wasn't in one of them, I don't want to go there anyway.</p>

<p>Though I do know people for whom all these societies are just ways to hang out with friends, with the bonus of perhaps looking semi-productive.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Rebelling is not the answer...but it's good to see that you don't design your life around the game of college admissions</p>

<p>So basically you're a nerd in denial. Hmm, whatever tickles your pickle I guess.</p>

<p>What's the purpose of this thread?</p>

<p>
[quote]
So who else seem to break out of their mold? And how badly will it kill my application to not include national honor societies besides Mu Alpha Theta?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Correct me if I'm wrong, but honor society membership is usually based on grades anyway, so I'd think it wouldn't be important so long as you have a good GPA.</p>

<p>And I got into my top choice with 11 hours of community service and probation from NHS (for never coming to meetings). I didn't put any honor societies into my extracurricular box except for Mu Alpha Theta, which in our school is more of a math-competition club. So you should be fine as long as you have other good achievements.</p>

<p>Wow, this really shows us, not joining honors societies...</p>

<p>Joining honor societies at my school = biggest waste of life.</p>

<p>The standards are unreasonably high (think 95+ average in all science courses + previous science volunteering + 2 page essay + teacher recommendation from all science teachers, etc) and then have to do 10 hours for each honor society each year.</p>

<p>With all this, you'd think the club would actually do something-when in fact, it is just a placeholder on an app. The biggest "event" any of the honor societies does is a "santa brunch" which science honor society members are forced to do.</p>

<p>Am I bitter for not getting in? In fact, I have the grades (and more) to get in, but why would I want to?</p>

<p>Then again, my whole school is about "impressions"-my newspaper is such a joke... I'm a news editor and the three days we "had" to show up for out of the whole year---the teacher isn't there...we barely print 4 issues. I hate high school!</p>

<p>I agree that honor societies can be infuriating---and for varying reasons. Some for putting on a front of "prestige" and not living up to it, some for requiring too much and not giving a break. I like and dislike them, depending on what they do and how they are run. But the truth of the matter is, it's just another thing we have to do. And it's often fake and done without passion and just another vehicle for college, but sometimes I believe you can't beat the system. Some things deserve rebellion. Other don't. This is one of those cases where you just have to suck it up. And I think if people really feel like it's oppressive, don't be in more than one or two.</p>