"I deserve better"

catastrophic09 · January 25, 2009, 8:56pm

I know this is a parent’s forum so a student’s opinion doesnt go all that far however I think all parents posting on this thread (and perhaps most parents on CC) should hear this. Students place a huge emphasis on how “good” a school is but we are not born knowing what is and isn’t “good.” When I started looking at colleges, one of my parents said I was basically not allowed to look at a school with median SAT’s under 600. Many of the brightest students are taught that they are too good for the majority of colleges out there. It is not our own arrogance that lends to the opinion mentioned in quotes but instead largely a parentally instilled drive to be what we are told we can be. I absolutely agree with Pizzagirl, it is sad to see some of the parents on this board because it’s obvious they are FAR too involved with a choice that is frankly NOT theirs.

A side note to gravitysrainbow… aside from possibly an uber-wealthy legacy student I would challenge you to find one honest slacker at Princeton because it’s next to impossible to get into a top ten school being anything other than an overachiever.

MomofWildChild · January 25, 2009, 8:57pm

^^ But, boy, do some of those over-achievers slack off once they GET to these colleges!

gravitysrainbow · January 25, 2009, 9:06pm

I only used that example to prove my point- That being at an Ivy League/Top Tier school doesn’t mean crap if you don’t put in the work.

starbright · January 25, 2009, 9:57pm

I’m financially responsible for my child’s education. So long as I’m footing the bill that could be as high as $200,000 (and as a professor and being 30 years older, know a lot more about education than my children), I am entitled to have a say. If my children want to pay their own way, different story altogether. Given education is so completely expensive now (esp in our income bracket where we do not qualify for aid) you are absolutely correct we are FAR too involved, but I make no apologies.

lspf72 · January 25, 2009, 10:41pm

Good post, starbright

hmom5 · January 26, 2009, 4:49am

We just have to face it, for some there will never be anything but HYP:

ag54 · January 26, 2009, 1:10pm

And this common sentiment concerns me a lot too. Not a concern so much that kids feel they deserve a good education-- very many on CC do! But I feel so disheartened and sad that these many of these kids are so bright and so hard working but they’ve been utterly blindsided by ranking stats. They quote them like sports scores (and now have started quoting their HS rank too). And speak so authoritatively and judgementally about theirs and others college choices (and abilities to get in there!). Yet, as we know, the vast majority of them know little about what makes for good higher education, have little data to make any real comparisons, and have never even visited the ‘schools they are obsessed with’ or the schools they trash. And frankly, spending the day on a campus and saying it’s your dream school is as valid as being maturely in love with a person after one date. 

It seems “quality education” (or its attributes) has been replaced simplistically by a ‘prestige score’ “ranking” or “selectivity”. Students use it as the litmus tests of quality “this school is more selective than that school so it must be better”. Nonsense. It would be wonderful if we knew selectivity truly reflected a better education. That would happen if consumers could accurately judge the quality of education across many schools and voted with their applications; but instead, everyone applies to schools not because they have knowledge that they are good, but simply that they are selective! Its a self-fulfilling cycle! 

The schools from 10 or 20 years ago haven’t necessarily improved (in fact some argue they’ve gotten worse) even though they find themselves getting increasingly popular and selective among teenagers. Through massive marketing, branding, very consciously and sophisticating playing ranking games, they are able to move up the rankings, change their yield and selectivity and viola, they move up the rankings and justify their tuition! And it becomes a self-fulfilling cycle; more students apply only because it’s a “selective school” so it stays in the top or moves up further. You don’t really think administrators only care about how classes are taught do you? You think they don’t run models and hire consultants and have a big marketing budget? Why should any of that matter if it was just about quality education? **
The schools are not changing much: it’s more window dressing that anything substantive. If anything the quality is going down. When I taught at the high end, and for a period ran the core in our school, it was so much about packaging to stay at the top. We developed an ‘X curriculum’ that sounded great on paper but I assure you, required minimal pedagogical change or faculty effort. We debated how the numbers got presented to the magazine, what we had to give them, how it could be different. We strategized intensely when each issue came out. We hired more professionals. We made some investments sure, but often looked for ways to make changes that would stand out but cost us little. It’s just like any other business. And being private, we had funds to do so (in a state school, they have to put the money into the classroom and infrastructure so they don’t have the ability to burn money on consultants and marketing and ranking games). The only thing that makes this industry different is that it’s cloaked in ‘education’ as if there is some sort of higher moral purpose here, so the consumers don’t realize they are just consumers and that they are paying a premium for a brand. **
Okay end of rant. BTW, I think Pepperdine is a wonderful school!

Requoted because I think it needs to be - GREAT POST.

Hellooooo Wash U ;)

"I deserve better"

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