I disagree with the principal

Parent Cafe
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<p>TH2 is allowing the parents of the students who have been charged with two separate assault incidents to remain as participants on the football team & in school.
I agree with the inschool part- as long as there are zero further incidents but I do not think the parents should get to decide about their ECs.</p>

<p>Garfield does not allow parents to decide what GPA qualifies you to play football, and while I understand that football gives these students structure and an outlet- I think the school also needs to send a message that who you are means something, and that students who commit assaults- * even on their own time*, are not the sort of students that we want associated with the school.</p>

<p>I hope they are assigned something that is meaningful- from the sounds of the name of one of the victims, it sounds as if it might have been racially motivated. To add insult to injury.</p>

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<p>I also believe in * actions * showing remorse.
Not sad puppy dog faces.I expect these kids have already perfected that look. :rolleyes:</p>

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<p>While I see your point, they have only been charged - they have not been convicted of anything. </p>

<p>There still is a presumption of innocence in this country (the Duke lacrosse boys are still fresh in my mind). If they’re convicted, the consequences will appear soon enough.</p>

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<p>I think they should be suspended from playing. Athletes need to be given the very clear message that bad behavior (especially criminal behavior) will result in their not being able to participate in their sport. I suspect the reason why we are seeing so much bratty behavior on the part of professional athletes nowadays is because they’ve often been coddled and treated like demigods whom their teams cannot live without. The principles of sportsmanship, scholarship, and self-sacrifice for the good of the team are no longer being stressed in many of our high school team athletics programs, and that’s a shame. </p>

<p>“The biggest thing with me was just watching the kids and seeing how remorseful they really were,” Allen said last month. “You can see it in their eyes they were crushed. They should have been, for what they’ve done.”</p>

<p>Apparently, there’s not a lot of doubt as to whether or not the boys actually committed the crimes. It sends a bad message to the boys on the rest of the team, as well as to the student body as a whole, when players are allowed to continue as if they’ve done nothing wrong.</p>

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<p>Are these kids by any chance recruited/recruitable players?</p>

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<p>Gee, I thought that parents could always decide that the kid is done for the season! Or did they waive that right somewhere?</p>

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<p>Like it or not:
“They have been charged, they haven’t been found guilty,”</p>

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<p>Are these kids by any chance recruited/recruitable players?</p>

<p>Not likely- if they were, they would probably be at a school with a winning record.</p>

<p>They have been charged, they haven’t been found guilty,"</p>

<p>True, but by the time it goes to court, the football season will be over.
Suspending them from the football team after the season, is like suspending the students from Rainier Beach when they were charged with rape, after school was out for the summer.</p>

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<p>Same thing has happened at my S school, though the student was charged and pleaded guilty. He is “star player” on FB team, and there has been no disciplinary action from the HS. Our district and HS responded same as Seattle SD, the crime had nothing to do w/school. Maybe not, but what kind of message are the other kids getting that you can have a criminal record and still play.</p>

<p>It just doesn’t seem fair to those who follow the rules in and out of school…</p>

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<p>The players have been charged, not convicted. The Duke lacrosse case proves there can be a very big difference and jumping to conclusions can ruin lives. Maybe the defendants are innocent of the charges and maybe they perceive their football experience as crucial to their post high school plans. The media and their spin aren’t court and only the jury should judge.</p>

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<p>I agree that confessions are not always a sign of guilt, however, there are witnesses.
after further digging, I have found that the coach and the principal did try and bench the players, but their parents * lawyered up* and because the “alleged” events took place off of school property, were forced to reinstate the players.</p>

<p>Now here is another Garfield high school football team whose players were kicked off. Apparently their parents didn’t hire attorneys.
[These students also confessed](<a href=“Garfield Heights trio kicked off football team | cleveland.com”>http://blog.cleveland.com/tlr/2007/09/garfield_heights_trio_kicked_o.html&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

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<p>There’s nothing wrong with “lawyering up” to protect your rights. It’s one of the foundations of our legal system.</p>

<p>I understand your frustration at what seems to be an unfair result. But again, no one has been convicted (except through the grapevine and in the court of public opinion in your locale), so it seems like the families are going through the proper channels to protect THEIR children’s rights.</p>

<p>I would think that it would be no different had it been one of our children.</p>

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<p>right I understand that is their perogative.
Certainly the occasions that led the court to place $25,000 bail requirement on one of the suspects because of prior criminal behavior may not be connected with a new case.</p>

<p>However, as a woman who has been forcibly raped and assaulted by more than one individual, and as a parent of daughters, my sympathy lies much closer with the victim in this case, than with thugs masquerading as high school football players who “allegedly” assault and rob people on their way home from work or school.</p>

<p><a href=“http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/333337_schoolcrime27.html?source=mypi[/url]”>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/333337_schoolcrime27.html?source=mypi&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_100307WAB_rainierbeach_rape_arraign_SW.1352dee23.html[/url]”>http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_100307WAB_rainierbeach_rape_arraign_SW.1352dee23.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Emeraldkity, I feel the same way. Unfortunately, the schools’ hands are tied when it comes to stuff that happens outside of school hours or crimes that are commited outside of school property. As I recall, in our district there was a “traditional” pick up football game between two rival schools which turned into a major brawl with 200 or so kids involved and lots of bloodied noses. Someone videotaped it and posted pics on MySpace (pre-YouTube era), and someone tipped off the principal at one of the schools. There was nothing the schools could do - nobody got suspended or punished in any way, because the brawl happened in a public park, not on the schools’ territory! We recieved a letter from the district condemning such activities, and that’s about it.</p>

<p>I really hope the thugs get what they deserve!</p>

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<p>Sounds like the “remorse” was for getting caught. No one could mistake this for a practical joke or childish fun. There should be serious consequences if there’s a conviction, but I can see how a school might hesitate to act at this point. If my son confessed to something like this, the consequences at home, including family counseling and grounding from all ECs, would be immediate. If he said he was innocent, I’d defend him.</p>

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<p>Isn’t one source of your irritation the overloaded sports culture of your school? Perhaps it sickens you to imagine these students being cheered on by cheerleaders, lifted high on others’ shoulders, marching in triumphantly onto a playing field, and in other ways “representing” your school with the huge social/emotional reward that is football.</p>

<p>If they were in a more low-key EC, like the debate team or key club, you’d probably say they should keep their positions for the year because it would be restorative and helpful to them while they await trial–where they may or may not be found innocent.</p>

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<p>I gotta say I agree with the principal on this one. The crimes, heinous as they were, were not committed on school grounds. Therefore, the school has no jurisdiction to punish.</p>

<p>Now, had the students assaulted another football player on the team, or done something to hinder the playing of football somehow, then I might support them being removed. But why should they be taken off the football team? Why should their physical prowess on the field necessitate that they be held to a higher moral standard than the rest of us?</p>

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<p>because…thanks to their physical prowess on the field, they’re also at the top of the social pyramid at the high school. It’s a privilege and they’re the center of attention when they walk into the cafeteria. If you represent others publicly in the community, as sports leaders do, you should be held to a higher moral standard. </p>

<p>And it isn’t such a high moral standard, either, to avoid being arrested for robbery and assault. That’s a low standard and expectation, I’d say. While not convicted, they were arrested.
Are you ready to scream your lungs out in praise for them, or see them enjoy an easy time getting dates to a dance, because they can kick a leather ball far? Besides, I’ve always heard from sports folks that it’s the teamwork, citizenship and spirit that is as important as winning. They were crummy teammates by how they acted in their community. I wouldn’t want to play with them. </p>

<p>I’ve just had it with the overcelebration of team sports at h.s., especially relative to many other pursuits that require just as much practice, discipline and skill (dance, theater) without nearly the budget, teacher attendance at events, cheerleaders, and general excitement that team sports earns.</p>

<p>Bah humbug on football. I’m sick of it. Arrested for robbery and assault? Darned straight they can sit on a bench for a year. Give someone else on the team the chance to hear everyone screaming for them.</p>

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<p>If that was the case, every so-called “popular” student, regardless of sport, should be held to different standards than the “regular” student. Just because they play football doesn’t make them good leaders or good people. It is unfair to them to expect them to be.</p>

<p>No, it isn’t such a high moral standard. But if the school doesn’t make a practice of suspending students from debate, or choir, or community service clubs, or any number of other extracurriculars due to outside arrests, then it’s unfair to do so for football.</p>

<p>Yeah, people cheer them on. Yeah, they may have an easy time getting girls for the dance. I fail to see what that has to do with the assault. They will be punished for those crimes committed outside of school. Why does it make sense to punish them further within school? Because they’re football players, and therefore, should be “better” than the rest of us?</p>

<p>High schools are gossip mills, I’m sure the other students already know about their arrests. Why not let them choose if they want to emulate these football players or not? After all, no one’s forcing the students to cheer. No one’s forcing them to go to the dance.</p>

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<p>Oops, I missed this part. If the other players on the team voted to suspend these players, I might feel differently. But the school administration acting with a swift arm and an iron fist just because these are football players rubs me the wrong way.</p>

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<p>luckycharmed, you’re right to some extent. Athletes shouldn’t necessarily be held to different standards than “regular” kids. The point is, IMO, that no kid should be permitted to perform in extracurriculars if accused of these crimes. And I would not be at all surprised if a “regular” non-football star would in fact have been punished more harshly than a prized athlete. In fact, athletes are often allowed to get away with more bad behavior than non-athletes; just read the news.</p>

<p>In a different vein, I know of at least one situation in which an athlete was allowed to compete after being accused of a crime against a fellow student. When that player was introduced and ran out onto the field, the entire student body in the stands stood up and turned their backs on him. It was great.</p>