I am almost done with middle school. The school choices are finished, and I have applied for the IB program to my zoned school and got in. However, I want to drop out now that I understand the consequences of the IB program, and that I can take more AP classes whilst in the normal program. The problem is that I have already accepted the offer, and it is very difficult for me to drop out. It’s still early, as my middle school year is still not finished yet, but I am having doubts on whether it would be possible for me to drop out of the IB program. If I am able to, I will just go to the school and take my AP classes. For people familiar with this, will I be able to drop out of the IB program before the school year starts? I can provide more context if needed.
You should be discussing this with your guidance counselor or principal. None of us know the policies of your school!
I of course cannot speak to your school policies, but the bigger question is why? What do you prefer about AP over IB? IB is very writing focused, so if you like and are good at writing, then IB is a great option. Also, you don’t start taking official IB courses until your junior year, so you can take APs your freshman and sophmore year, in addition to adding a couple in while you are taking IB classes.
What does this mean? Are you getting cold feet about the program because you’re concerned about the work load?
The IB diploma is rigorous and you may earn college credit, if you intend to apply to college in the US. IB diploma is generally regarded by colleges as the gold standard of course rigor in high school.
If you are already thinking of future college apps, be aware that your app will be assessed in the context of what your school offers and other students at your school. In other words, if Anna Jones is part of the IB diploma progrma, and you are not, her application, providing she gets good marks, will likely be considered more rigorous than a student who takes a lot of AP classes.
Just something to be aware of. I work with kids who have completed IB diploma. They have a generally great experience and feel well prepared for college.
For sure this! My DD is in IB and has written more true research papers than I did in my first two years of college.
Hi, here to offer my few cents.
I’m currently an IB DP Senior, and been a part of the program since 2nd Grade, going through both PYP and MYP - I’m set to begin my IB Exams in about 20 days. Echoing what has been said already, why do you want to drop out of the IB Program already? IB itself, if you aren’t already aware, is a tiered system, with DP being the pinnacle beginning in Junior year. Considering that you are nearly done with Middle School, you’d still be a part of the “MYP” program, which lasts through Sophmore year.
The IB Diploma is often considered more rigorous than AP courses, considering that many of your final courses are taken over two years, rather than just one with traditional AP courses. Although I’ve heard that DP is often considered AP on another level, I and my other IB students have found the coursework pretty manageable.
IB itself is quite different from AP, both in course work and work ethic - the IB that I’ve experienced has a heavier focus on group teamwork and an emphasis on deeper learning. Especially into your later years, you find that you will do a LOT of work with your classmates, whether it be from working on group projects to studying for an Organic Chemistry exam in the upcoming period that everyone is dreading. IB uses something called the learner profile traits which are a set of 10 “traits” that each IB student should embody, including being “communicators,” “risk takers,” and more. While this does sound very corny (and believe me, most of us thought it was too), these traits did help make us better learners both in and out of the classroom. I’ve seen more of these type of traits now in the way I try to approach new topics and more, as a result of these learner profile traits being engrained in me.
Where IB becomes a coin flip for people, however, is the writing. IB LOVES writing. Throughout your IB career, you will write many essays, both long and short form. In the DP program, you write a 4000-word essay called the “Extended Essay,” which is independent research/analysis. You’ve also got to write things for the Theory of Knowledge, and more. While this does take awhile to do, I’ve learned a lot from it: how to improve my writing style, reduce active voice, and more. Most importantly, IB writing is VERY SIMILAR to college-level writing. Writing these essays has prepared me for the level I’m expected to perform at in college.
IB is hard, probably much harder than the traditional AP route, but overall the others and I doing DP have felt that in the end, all the work was worthwhile. We’ve learned how to write better, form better bonds with each other, and continue making connections to both our local and global communities - the cornerstone of IB. If you do ultimately take IB, I hope this experience is the same.
As @blossom noted, please get in touch with your zoned school’s guidance counselor. They will know more about IB/AP than we will specifically about that school.
Think carefully if the IB program is the right choice for you. There are positives about the program mentioned in this thread and also negatives that are often overlooked.
The coursework itself is limiting and not as rigorous in math and sciences. There are only 6 classes taken over two years, 3 at high level, comparable to an AP class, and 3 at standard, considered below AP classes. The IB HL classes span two years, while AP only 1, but at least for college credit, AP gets more and is more broadly accepted. Going the AP route will give you a more solid and broad general coursework.
IB differentiates itself through the extras, Theory of Knowledge class, Creativity Activity Service, and the Extended Essay. Instead of taking Theory of Knowledge, an actual AP class instead would in my opinion show more rigor and be more useful in the long run. The Creativity Activity Service is a type of mandatory volunteering, if you are or plan to be involved in more meaningful extracurriculars, that’s the better route. The extended essay is a great feature of the IB program, and in general there is a writing focus throughout the program, which is very helpful for someone more inclined towards humanities or languages. For a STEM oriented student I’d advise against IB.
Oftern there are more AP choices than IB - that is true. but if a school offers both AP and IB classes, the “highest rigor” mantle will be given to IB - i.e. when school counselors send student info and school profile to colleges, if they offer IB it will be granted the highest rigor, not AP.
It will depend on school, but I don’t think as a general rule an IB class is considered more rigorous than the AP counterpart. All colleges see them as roughly equivalent, I’m not aware of a single exception, most likely they would consider AP more rigorous if anything. I’m doubtful that some high school would go against this trend, I haven’t ever seen high school policy document that would indicate that, link to a document that states it explicitly if you have it.
I don’t have a document that explicitly states that it’s just what our school officials tell us and what I’ve heard from others as well. Your mileage may vary!
Does your school principal or counselor explicitly say that you will get the most rigorous check mark only if you take IB classes, but not if you take AP equivalent coursework?
I wouldn’t put much stock in what you hear from other parents/students, people misunderstand and misinterpret things all the time.
Yes
It may be, but we’d have to rely on your word for it.
Alternatively we can check the list of classes UC considers high schools honors classes, submitted by the high schools themselves.
You can search for classes containing AP or IB in their name. Based on the UC Honors designation there’s no evidence that IB classes are considered more rigorous.
Yeah, I’m not speaking about how the colleges treat it. Some colleges definitely have IB specific scholarships, but certainly not all. I’m just talking about how it’s treated by our local high schools - at which it is labeled the most rigorous course of study available to students by high school administrators.
You are making an extraordinary claim that AP classes would not get the most rigorous check mark at your high school unlike IB classes.
That’s literally unheard of! I challenge you to provide any piece of credible evidence to back it up.
Is it possible you’re simply misinformed?
I think we have throughly discussed this issue. It sounds like you have a different situation in your state or school district - that’s fine. I don’t know all states, just mine.
In our district, the IB diploma track is explicitly considered the most rigorous and is harder than AP. Students often drop out and switch to AP if they cannot keep up with the volume of work. IB classes cannot be taken until 11th grade, and all courses require extensive writing. Multi-year courses deep dive into specific areas. The IB diploma also requires completion of an extensive research paper.
If the AP and IB programs in your district are different, then it’s just different. Something can be true in one place and a different thing can be true somewhere else.
Ok, so we went from your school to the entire district that would check mark most rigorous only on the IB coursework but not on the AP. No document exists for this policy you just go by what school officials and parents tell you. Name the district and it’s going to be very easy to debunk your claim.
Put me in the skeptical category on this one and let’s leave it at that.
On a side note, if I am reading this correctly, the OP has not been “Seen” since April 9th. So… I suppose any further discussion wouldn’t have any impact on their choice if they aren’t visiting CC anymore (If I am correct.)
This was true at the high school my student attended. The counselors said that only IB DP students got the ‘most rigorous’ designation on the sheets that they filled out for each senior. I volunteered in the counseling office for a year and can verify that it was not something I misheard.
Of course students who choose to load up on APs are taking rigorous courses, and in fact those tend to translate into more college credit for rising college freshmen who perform at a high level on the AP tests, since the IB DP limits students to 3 HL classes which are the ones that most colleges would recognize for college credit (based on test score). My kid got the IB Diploma and in addition scored 5s on five APs. In their experience, having taken both IB and AP classes, both were strong classes with the difference being that AP classes tried to squeeze in as much information as possible (more memorization) but without the emphasis on deeper understanding that the IB classes encouraged. As well, at our high school the IB teachers are a team and consult with each other to try to tie in lesson materials in order to overlap topics so that students can see how one topic can be viewed from different subject area lenses. I view IB as a more holistic program that emphasizes reading comprehension and concise writing, and it provides a very solid foundation for students going to schools reputed to draw top students. Ironically, those are the same schools that are less likely to give college credit for either AP or IB.
AP allows students flexibility to concentrate on their strongest subjects. IB doesn’t have that leniency, the student is signing up to be challenged in every subject up to the caps that IB has in its curriculum. If a student is particularly strong in math, such that they would be on a track to be studying diff EQs in high school then IB HL Math would not be able to offer that level. But let’s be honest, AP wouldn’t either; those kids have to do a DE program with a local college. My kid finished Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2 in middle school. As a result there was some repetition of math concepts in high school, and that’s ok, because we didn’t want to deal with the hassle of DE. We got permission from the AP Stats teacher for them to take the class freshman year (first time ever allowed at the school) and my kid scored a 5 on the AP test as a 14 yr old. In retrospect, that math class was one of the most impactful classes my kid took in high school. IMO it’s a shame that Stats is not taken by more students because understanding of stats has much more use in real life than Calculus.
If considering attending college outside of the US, then IB is the route to go. International schools understand the rigor of the IB program.
I’m curious how you got to volunteer in the counseling office and what kind of work you did during that year.
It seems your student could have done Differential Equations in high school since he finished Algebra 2 in middle school. Not saying it’s better, but since the OP is considering alternatives to IB, that’s a viable path to consider if he doesn’t want to spend two years repeating material.
It was smart to do AP Statistics, because that’s an area that IB Math is weak on if doing HL Analysis.