I’m a 29-Year-Old With $235k in Student Debt. I’ll Never Pay It Back.

Parents Forum
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@mwolf, let’s please not blame the entire Baby Boomer generation for problems Millennials are experiencing. Most don’t leave their kids high and dry - most of the Boomers on this board probably paid for their kids upbringing, health care , education and a lot more.

I really hate it when Millennials are called lazy, stupid and unambitious too. Who is defending our country in Afgahnistan and on the seas? Who starts up most of the interesting businesses these days? Who are caring for the sick and elderly? Mostly Millennials. That premise is equally misguided.

Every generation inherits the work, and the problems of the previous one. Each generation also responds rationally to the situation in which it is placed. While college costs are 3x more than in 1980, lots of things are much cheaper or didn’t exist. We live in an age of miracles and wonder. You can talk to virtually anyone, anywhere in the world for a small fixed cost. You can travel for 1/3rd the cost. Modern vehicles use half of the fuel. You can listed to any music, learn just about anything, and do it from almost everywhere. Almost everything is cheaper in real dollar terms today. And the medical advancements have been astonishing. All of those things were courtesy of Baby Boomers.

The reasons for things you cite are a lot fairly nuanced. The main reason that university funding dropped is the war on drugs started in the 1980’s and crime wave, which resulted in more prisons, which resulted in state budgets being diverted from education to prison operation. More laws for low impact drugs (e.g. pot) just added to the prison population.

Wages have not increased on average, but total worker compensation has because of benefits. A lot. And the low end of the wage scale hasn’t increased because of supply (migration) and disincentives to work (Welfare/excessive disability). Now we are starting to see wage increases even at the low end.

No one voted to send jobs overseas. What happened is that costs in the US were a lot higher, and our government added to the problem with a high cost regulatory/tax environment and didn’t enforce our IP laws, which led to even lower costs overseas. In addition, markets overseas grew and communications improved, which made it all possible.

Unions are and were one of those cost burdens. Right to work states have far greater job growth on average. The Unions gutted themselves by making their workers uncompetitive. Read the history of the NEA for a perfect example of an organization that initial goal was to improve teacher quality and is now just about wages and member protection.

My Dad grew up in a house with no electricity or running water. My Mom moved four times to escape war and revolution. We had it really easy compared to what they experienced. But it is a lot better today, even for new grads.

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@TooOld4School Funding was cut from schools, because cutting taxes was the go-to promise of every politician in the 1980s, and as you wrote, the government kept on spending more money on the “war on drugs” and “the war on crime”.

Benefits have not increased, since healthcare costs are being dumped on the workers, who spend a lot more on healthcare. The use of private, for profit health insurance companies, has ensured that the costs of healthcare will continue to increase. A company which benefits from delaying or denying treatment ends up leaving patients either bearing the costs themselves, or having higher out of pocket costs for a more serious problem. Of course the fact that the company needs to make a profit from the deal means that their fees are going to be higher, on average, than the treatment that the patients/clients receive. Since they want to increase profits, they will need to increase fees.

Anybody who voted for politicians who were responsible for sending jobs overseas, voted to do so. That what elections mean.

Unions represent the only power that workers have. Prior to unions, deaths and illnesses as the result of factory jobs were common, and wages just kept the workers above starvation. Corporations have no incentive to provide anything but the bare minimum for their workers, especially when they are the only employer, or when there is collusion between employers to hold wages down. A single employee quitting makes the corporation laugh. When all of the workers stop working and the corporation can’t hire anybody else, they listen to what the workers want. Without a union, there is no way to organize this.

There is a reason that corporations hired thugs and paid off police to beat up and kill unions organizers.

“Right to work” states also have the largest number of lethal accidents per million, especially after adjusting for industry. Most are also poverty-ridden, have many other social and economic issues, and their “right to work” laws only benefit a small number of very wealthy company owners.

I agree with you, though, the vast majority of grads today are doing far better than 90% of the world. But, as you know, that is the logical fallacy of “Relative Privation”…

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Many parents I know these days with college aged kids, have done so much better than their parents. Although, when I look at what my parents accomplished from where they started, abject dangerous poverty, they were incredible. My starting point, due to their work, was so very much more favorable.

Many of us are feeling that squeeze at the top or getting there. It’s huge change going from homelessness, hungry to college grad with a living wage job. But pushing the next generation up from there can be difficult too. Many highly accomplished parents are not happy that their kids are not taking the next steps up, and may be sliding downwards, by their standards, despite the advantages they have had in their starting point.

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Perhaps the common forum demographic has quite a bit of this anxiety, since kids growing up in upper middle to upper class (but sub plutocrat) families may find it a lot harder to move up than fall down, even though falling down is still likely end up better off than where similarly talented people from poor families are likely to reach. But the person who moves from poor to middle class may be more satisfied than the person who falls from upper class to upper middle class.

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This conversation has turned away from the main pt that the article highlights–poor decisions based on faulty reasoning. The root cause of the student loan crisis is not just the cost of college today or today’s wages. It is far more complicated than trying to pigeon hole it into such simplified categories.

Today’s students have been told repeatedly that the only way to have a good career is to get a 4 yr degree. (And based on reading CC, it isn’t even just about the 4 yr degree; it is where you get that degree that really matters.) They are told college isn’t just about getting a job–it is an experience. Students have a inflated sense of what their pay will be when they graduate and the types of jobs new graduates hold.

The student in the linked article envisioned himself as an international correspondent in a world with failing magazines and newspapers. There was a huge disconnect between what he envisioned and reality. (Did he think that he wouldn’t have to face grunt work level jobs before rising to choicer opportunities in a field of decreasing stable job opportunities?)

We are living in a society where trades have been overlooked by our school system as a valuable and worthy goal. Trades/technician type jobs are seen as what are left for those who can’t make it at a 4 yr university and only for low paying jobs. It is a distorted reality that ignores that many 2 yr degree careers make more $$ than those who even hold master’s degrees. (My Dd with a 2 yr Allied health degree makes significantly more than her cousin with her master’s. Combine her cousin’s debt from her education and yrs not working and the investments Dd has been making since she graduated and the financial void is much, much larger.)

Students and families often dismiss the effects of debt as worth it. They believe it will be easy to pay back. (How many times has this conversation taken place on these forums?) I have zero in common with the majority of CC posters and l only post on these forums bc I know that there are other ways for kids to get ahead than debt and pursuing only tippy top ranked schools. We have managed to have 4 kids pursue the fields they have desired and get where they wanted to go on tiny budgets and those “dreaded lowly ranked way beneath their abilities with no peers” schools. They have thrived academically and career-wise via the “unworthy of their academic background and abilities” route. They have let themselves be “bought” for their stats or chosen fields “below” their abilities or live at home and commute to the “no good student should be forced to accept” local directional.

Our system is broken, but not just bc of tuition costs. I personally see the conversations on CC as a microcosm of the much larger issues that abound bc the issues aren’t constrained to just cost of tuition.

Good careers and affordable options do exist. Instead of loan forgiveness, I wish we would see a refocus of attention to local options and better real world supports for students without educational/employment backgrounds at home. I would like to see incentives for integrated community partner employment, especially for those at the greatest risk of dropping out.

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I want to like your post 1,000 times @Mom2aphysicsgeek There are many options beyond traditional 4 year colleges that can result in great careers with average to higher than average salaries. These options, with sometimes larger ROIs, will only become more attractive as higher ed is disrupted.

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The article features a young man who currently has no intentions of paying back his college loans because he does not believe it’s worth doing so. His parents are paying back some of them for which they signed. Whether they are doing so willingly or not, was not addressed. Though the young man’s expressed attitude about that was galling, IMO, we really do not know all of the facts.

He may change his tune later. Living on $25k a year without a SO subsidy doesn’t appear to be what he wants. If GF dumps him and he doesn’t find more sugar, he may have to move back in with parents, live a very different lifestyle or have to make more money. At which point, he’ll have to pay more on his loans.

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@MWolf you have no idea what you are talking about so I am through

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@Mom2aphysicsgeek I see what you are describing on CC, but not IRL at the school where I work. Our school has a whole new technology wing opening this fall that will concentrate on the trades. Millions have been spent on this. We’ve always had them and always had students who choose that route because it fits their desires - not because they can’t make it elsewhere. Many go to local community colleges and state schools few outside of PA have heard of too.

Students and parents are also concerned with finances. We had our best student in eons choose Wake Forest and a free ride over full pay at Stanford with that full pay lessened by the numerous scholarships she’d won. She had two other free ride choices too at the end. She’s super happy at WF - no regrets at all.

This forum has introduced me to folks with a totally different mindset, that’s for sure, but it’s certainly not that way across the nation.

ETA I work in a very statistically average public school (as per SAT/ACT and state ranking) so I don’t think we’re the outliers.

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Think this thread should be stickied. I only read the first post a bit but when he states that his parents mortgage is paid off and now they get to pay off his loans $600 /month for basically the rest of their lives…

This is so important for parents to read that keep asking the question if it’s worth paying “x” more for “x” college /degree /graduate school.

Everyone thinks after graduation they are going to make over $100,000.00 and life will be grand. I think that’s rarer then we think.

If this guys not working 2 jobs trying to get ahead he should be arrested for abusing his parents. Maybe there should be some penalty for people that don’t work when they are able to, to pay off loans.

Really sad.

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Maybe I misunderstood the video, but it seemed to be implied that the term of the loan was about 30 years (he compared it to a mortgage and said “I don’t want to worry about my life 40 years from now”). But with $235k in debt, a monthly payment of $635 is only 2.7% of the total debt load. If the interest is 2.7% or higher (seems likely), he will never even touch the principal with that payment. Forget 30 or 40 years, this is a debt that will continue to balloon for the rest of his life.

Not to mention that his parents won’t be likely to contribute $600/mo for very long. This guy shows zero sign of being financially responsible enough to deploy whatever inheritance (a house?) in an effective way. What will happen then?

Income-based repayment was mentioned-- could that be a reason that he dropped down to part-time work? To cut his required payments? I’m not familiar enough with IBR to comment on how it affects his credit, expected loan payment period, etc.

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@Creekland If universally appropriate and fiscally responsible decisions were being made, then the current push to make school debt a talking pt for loan forgiveness would not exist. The conversation only exists bc families borrow more than federal limits and more than they realistically should have.

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@Knowsstuff said, “If this guys not working 2 jobs trying to get ahead he should be arrested for abusing his parents. Maybe there should be some penalty for people that don’t work when they are able to, to pay off loans.”

Completely agree. If people don’t pay child support/alimony the courts can garnish wages and seize property. I’m not looking for harsh rules as a general measure to solve the student loan challenge - for most holders of student loans I would not advocate wage garnishment nor seizing their property - but, in this case, it seems like he needs to be “forced” to do the right thing: pay back loans he agreed to pay. I’m not sure if income based repayment is a variant of wage garnishment but, in my view, he should be forced to pay a reasonable amount based on his income since he is not stepping up to do it voluntarily…

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The parents might be ok with the deal they cut with the Lenders. They might be finished with their mortgage and just continuing to pay that amount. Perhaps at the time their son was looking to go to schools, they could not pay the cost and willingly took on that obligation. If it hamstrings both parent and student, not PLUS, the young man may have a surprise coming when his parents can not pay it anymore. These student loan managers can go after your social security and tax refunds, by the way. I know an elderly man who is hit up with $190 a month off of his meager social security because he co-signed with his granddaughter and she isn’t making enough money to hit up .

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I’m amazed at the number of people who don’t understand college, loans, and debt. My wife and I were both blessed that we were able to attend any college we wanted without taking loans. (We both went to Penn.) We started saving for college literally the first month our oldest was born. With our financial planner, we decided to be “conservative” and assume that, based on a high rate of inflation a private school would be $40K all in. (Penn from when I was there in today’s dollars is right about that number…give or take.) Unfortunately the rules…er…costs…of the game changed in foreseen ways. So we told both of our boys that, in spite of us saving, cost WOULD have to be a major factor in selecting colleges. Both boys selected affordable colleges and will graduate with minimal student loan debt. And they are fortunate that their grandfather is paying off that minimal debt so they will start their post college life debt free. There is a lot to be said for that.

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My parents would have signed anything for me so that I could go to any college I wanted. They didn’t have enough money saved, nor did their single income with 3 other kids allow them to afford much i. The way of pay as you go, but they would have signed. Even my selfish 17 year old self would not permit that. I went for the merit money and picked a full ride school. Had I not gotten one, I’d have gone to a local option, worked part time and transferred to main campus for last two years, and have had some money saved towards paying that . I did have some savings for college, but not enough for 4 years of residential college even with what my parents could pay.

My brothers all did pretty much the same thing.

But, yeah, they would have signed for a loan and been stuck paying.

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I’m not saying folks like the dude in this story don’t exist. They do, and media looks for them to sensationalize stories. I’m saying they aren’t the majority of students out there.

Many/most(?) students need loans to attend college - even cc or their most local state U. Most just get normal sized loans AND pay them back afterward from the jobs they get post graduation. The current push to do loan forgiveness or cheaper college to start with is to try to help these “majority” folks who truly couldn’t afford things without loans and paying them back is causing them to have to put off other decisions hurting the economy and putting their lives on delay. It’s not to help folks buy an elite college education just because they want one and later can’t get that entry level CEO job.

There are a handful of kids who can get college for free, but they need really high stats and by definition are usually in the top single digit percent of all students. There are the other 90 - 99% of those who can’t afford it OOP.

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It’s disingenuous to spend every last dime you have on a Ferrari and then complain about the price and expect someone else to make your car payments. You knew how much the car cost, and you knew how much was in your bank account. How much you would need to earn to keep up with those payments is not a sure thing, but you probably had some idea. If the cost of that car is too much, don’t buy it. There are lots of other cars out there that will take you where you want to go just as well.

Unless the rules change, or there is a drastic cut in the cost of higher education, there should be little sympathy for someone who treats college debt like a car loan or a constant credit card balance. Too many of us are living beyond our means, because everyone else seems to be, and because the businesses and financial institutions in our society ALLOW us to.

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IMO, only reason student loan debt will be forgiven is if it reaches proportions that it affects a lot of people other than just the borrowers and hurts the economy.

When the housing bubble burst,it wasn’t just the one who overborrowed on their houses who were badly affected. Too many homes, too many defaults were wrecking the economy. Some areas were getting empty houses, bringing down the neighborhood.

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@Creekland Your argument might possibly be believable if the loan forgiveness amt being put forth equated to the federal loan limit. Right now the loudest one is $50,000, almost 2x the federal amt. (can it be that high if independent or parents don’t qualify for PLUS? Yes. But zero qualifiers are being stated and those students can have up to $57,500 in loans…they are most likely the poorest of the poor and the ones in the deepest trouble. So, the $99,999 income family that borrowed more than the federal limit gets more grace than the poor kid who borrowed more bc they had zero family support.)

Loan forgiveness is a bad idea. Talking about it sends the wrong message. I have an extended family member who took out way more inloans than she needed convinced it would be forgiven. We told her she was nuts. She went abroad, bought a car, etc. Her attitude was similar to the person in the article until she fell in love and the young man says he won’t get married until she pays off her loan. So now she is. But, before that? I’ll bite my tongue.

Actual hardship investigation taken to a court (like bankruptcy court) vs. blanket free-for-all makes far more sense.