Don’t count on bankruptcy court balancing out those who “need” to have loans forgiven. The only person I know IRL who successfully used that games all of the systems from unemployment to churches. She tells such a woe filled story and it convinces many to give her things (a car, free housing, etc) until places like churches catch on - then she just moves on to the next person - usually met on the internet. Currently she’s hoping for an $80,000 windfall from another “game,” post bankruptcy of course so she can keep it all instead of paying off any debts. Those of us who know her and the whole situation hope she loses, but she might not. If she were totally typical of those who receive benefits every last working person would be against them (or at least I hope they would).
But I also see the other side at school. There are more who truly need things than those who game the systems IME. Then there are the kids who drew bad birth lottery positions. I’m all for giving them a chance too. They have a ton stacked against them from birth. A few make it anyway, but most do not. No money causing lack of opportunities all along the journey is a big factor.
There is no system at all that is perfect. It doesn’t mean those systems aren’t worth it.
tbf, most folks are financially-challenged. More importantly, the Educational Complex spends its money on making sure that folks make bad (debt) decisions. Such (bad) student decisions are in the best interests of college staff & faculty, it keeps their school full and them employed.
There are a few states that offer free/near free education at the community college level (Tenn, Oregon), a few that have very low tuition or programs that pay (Florida, GA, Wyoming). Is there any evidence that fewer student loans are taken in those states, or that default rates are lower?
No.
I used to think that student loan limits should be higher but now I don’t think so. If my daughter could have qualified for more, she would have taken more. She’ll have trouble paying back what she did take, and she didn’t take the max. She did do study abroad, but didn’t get to travel around Europe every weekend like others in her program did. She had a wonderful time in London, one side trip to Paris, as that’s what she could afford. If the school would have lent her another $5000, she would have taken it and spent it. All of it.
Perhaps a better question is amount of debt per undergrad. If this link is any indication, school price does appear to impact debt load. For example, debt for many Cal State grads is <$20. Florida publics are ~$23k. In comparison, many grads of Pennsylvania schools have a debt load 2x that amount. (And as many Pennsylvanians will point out, their state publics are not inexpensive.)
Take student debt as a mortgage and get it done. It will take years, sacrifice and second job but it can be done. It’s about honoring your commitments. If everyone kept expecting freebies and forgiveness, system would go bankrupt.
If they can’t pay back their loans, that is a clear indication too many people are going to college. If anything, loan forgiveness will exacerbate the underlying problem of too many people going to college.
^^^ Actually, it will just make sure the socio-economic caste system stays in place regardless of merit or ability. The wealthy can afford college for the 2.0 student. Many of the rest can’t afford college for the 3.5 student without loans. Most DO pay back their loans. They just can’t pay for other things while doing so - hence hurting the economy and the socio-economic chance to improve. Many 3.5 students can do well given an opportunity - far better than asking if you want fries with that.
Given what this guy has professed in the video the title shouldn’t read “I’ll never pay it back” it should say “and I have no intention of paying it back”. The financial advisors told him what would be required for him to be able to pay it off. It’s not that he can’t it’s that he’s refusing to do so. He doesn’t want to sacrifice today to benefit tomorrow. In essence he has no ability to delay gratification. As long as he doesn’t default on his loan payments then I guess he will just continue paying the minimum balance for the rest of his life while interest continues to accrue. How he thinks he will be able to afford a house and a family is beyond me.
It’s honestly not worth analyzing or comparing the decisions and consequences of an adult who chooses not to have full time employment over the desire for the preconceived career conditions for which he refuses to make compromises. He is not a teacher with a part time waiter/waitress job or a social worker with a required masters degree trying to protect most needy, or a doctor with 8 expensive years of schooling and another 3-6 as a low paid servant now practicing in a poor rural environment. Those professions serving others are examples of where we should discuss debt forgiveness. He works part time and refuses to make lifestyle changes even to the determent of his parents lifestyle…
He is absolutely an individual that a bank should be wary of because in the case of a hardship or health issue, he will decide not to do what takes to pay the mortgage. And, I can’t imagine what happens when someone so inflexible has a child. He obviously did not work during his college years to keep his debt low. I remember taking a cut in take home pay from my waitress job to my first engineering job. At 21, I didn’t yet appreciate the value of vacation, tuition and health benefits, but I learned and adapted quickly.
Guess what, life is not perfect and often you need to dig deep. The ‘survival of the fittest’ may be controversial today and address natural selection in past history, but today’s society requires you to be adaptable in order to have choices and be successful. We are not too many generations away from a trade or family business being the predetermined career.
I really could not care less whether this guy pays back his loans, his parents pay them, or they all ultimately become defaulted.
The system we have is complex and economically incoherent. The vast majority of people have literally no hope of understanding the first and higher order effects of the reckless provision of credit to or on behalf of young people, many of whom should not be in college in the first place.
There is no moral issue here. If the laws allow you to delay or ultimately avoid paying your college debts, and you are willing to live with the legal and financial consequences (which are often overestimated anyway), I say go right ahead.
I agree with your first point, but disagree with the second. IMO, the moral issue is that our laws can turn citizens into endured servants for their (and their parents) life.
If the vast majority of people don’t understand credit then we should be holding whoever designs our public school curriculum accountable. I think anyone who wants to learn and expand their mind should have the opportunity to go to college. We should be striving for a more educated populace, not less.
Until we start having a test to ensure who can parent properly, it’s really a bad idea to hold the kids responsible for their birth lottery draw. It helps absolutely no one to do this. Not the parent, not the kids, not society.
Pulling kids from less than stellar parenting is also not always better. It’s actually not often better. There’s a parent/child bond that is incredibly strong. We have far more luck trying to teach the parents even though that’s not perfect either.
I don’t particularly care to start going down the path of deciding who should or shouldn’t have kids via some sort of test…
Not sure what you mean, here. If you are suggesting that credit be taught in K-12, I agree but also disagree. While a nice idea, I don’t think it will matter one iota. The best all the teachers in the world will never able able really help someone understand debt until they start paying their own bills, and gets to see what loans/interest does to quality of life.
I think everyone agrees with the concept, but where to you draw the line? Unlimited grad school (loan) funding for 10+ years to obtain a PhD, when the vast majority of grads have no shot at an academic job? Undergrad loan funding so one can attend a sleep away college OOS when the instate public offers a fine education?