I may have gotten myself in a bit of trouble tonight

Parent Cafe
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Apparently there is a bit of unrest at the HS about the way a bullying incident was handled earlier this week. No final plan is in place yet, but some students are planning a walk out of some sort next week. Apparently at least a few middle school kids are planning on participating. It sounds like the administration isn’t looking very favorably on this, since basically their handling of the situation is what is being protested. So it is unclear, but there is a fear among some parents that they will crack down harshly on the protesters. So several parents have been actively discouraging/forbidding their kids from participating for this reason. My wife is one of those parents.

I knew none of this.

I had a conversation I dread. 7th grade daughter and mom (also wife of 25 years) are discussing this when I walk around the corner. Mom gives me a VERY brief summary, and tells me that D wants to participate. Mom did NOT telegraph her opinion. What do I think?

I gave D my guess at the worst case scenario. She has a pass that I know she cares about that gives her some privileges because she has good grades and no discipline issues. I said my guess is that would be gone, and she could potentially be looking at a few days of in school suspension with zeros in her classes, which would probably be enough to drop her semester grades. Is she ok with that?

She says yes, because it isn’t right what happened. I said ok then, if you are willing to live with the consequences then I won’t stop you.

My wife told me that was the wrong answer. I told her that if she wants me to deliver a specific answer she should give that to me before I am asked the question in front of one of the kids. We agreed to disagree about who messed up. And to avoid looking like a complete bad guy, wife said she would go along with D and I, as long as any conversations with the administration were handled by me.

I’ve always been a bit of a boat rocker, and spent more than one morning when I was in HS talking to the principal about why the group I was leading was protesting something happening at the school. Fortunately for me the principal really liked me (most of the time) so we never got in trouble for what we did. My wife has known me for 30 years, so I’m not sure why she thought I would come down on the side of keeping your head down and mouth shut. She however has always been a rule follower. So I think she thought I would figure out that if D could get in trouble she shouldn’t participate.

I guess I might feel differently if she were in HS. But honestly, it’s middle school. As crazy as the college admissions has become, they still don’t pull grades or disciplinary records for 7th grade. After W and I discussed it, I went into D’s room and asked some more questions. I went over the possible ramifications again, and she reiterated that she was ok with that. I told her I was proud of her for standing up for what she believed in, even though it could have negative consequences for her personally.

In another thread I talked about how D21 is put off by SJW’s. Maybe those schools she is dismissing for that reason will be on the short list for D25.

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What is your wife afraid of exactly? I think a middle schooler is old enough to understand that her parents have different views and you can’t totally control her anyway so why does it matter if you expressed a different view. Parents of toddlers need a united front. Parents of kids as old and thoughtful as your daughter absolutely do not.

3

What will be accomplished by a bunch of 10-13 year olds walking out? What does walking out have to do with the action the administration took over the bullying? Are the students going to invite the media to cover the action? If not, who will take notice?

To me, walking out is not a protest but a chance to be disruptive. Are they going to take over teaching? Are they going to ‘show’ the administration that they have the power and the administration has none? I doubt it.

Why not another type of protest? Writing letters to the editors of local papers. Asking the administration to offer an anti- bullying workshop. Finding an anti-bullying organization to help them work with the school. Getting their parents to come to an assembly to hear the student’s ideas.

I don’t think walking out shows anything.

4

I’d be fine with it but I’m a boat rocker, too. :slight_smile:

Any possible consequences won’t matter. It’s only 7th grade.

Also, I 'd encourage everyone to do it. Safety in numbers. What are they going to do, expel the whole school? The administration would look even more like chumps.

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Legally, the school cannot discipline a kid for participating in a walkout any more than they would had the kid missed class for another reason. That means that if it is prohibited to miss class, to leave class, to be in the hallways during class time, etc. The school can discipline your kid for these infractions, but only at the level that these infractions would be punished if they were not part of a protest.

This cam up last year when the kids at my daughter’s high school stages a couple of walkouts in response to mass shootings and a number of hate incidents at the school. My kid not only participated, but was one of the leaders. there were no repercussions, because the school ended up being supportive, but other schools in the area were not so lucky, and since my kid was a leader, she educated herself on the risks and on the rights of the kids.

Also, there was no assurance ahead of time that that school would respond the way it did (well not in the first walkout anyway). We told our daughter that it was her choice, and we would support her whatever she did, but if there were consequences, she would need to deal with them on her own.

In your place I would support your daughter and enjoy the fact that you have a kid who is passionate about about good things, like ant-bullying. That being said, i would want her to make sure that she knows the facts. Staging a walkout on the base of a rumor is not a good habit to get into.

Finally, I think that you are in the right. If your wife asks for your opinion on something about which you hadn’t spoken, and without hearing her opinion, she cannot expect you to guess what she had said, especially since she should know you well enough to suspect that you may have a different opinion. Moreover, I agree with @maya54 - your kid is old enough to understand that there are certain things about which her parents disagree. Just make sure that you and your wife are on the same page as to how to respond to whatever your daughter decides, and that whatever your initial disagreements, the decision is now from both of you.

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I was curious what kind of responses I would get here.

The kids (she is the youngest) definitely know that my wife and I don’t agree on everything. At the same time, we try to have a united front as much as possible. They all know there are a few things I don’t agree with but I support her decision, and vice versa. I don’t think it is necessarily good for them to know all of our discussions about how we get there though. Because my wife isn’t wrong to think she looks like the bad guy here. And that isn’t really her job. Plus it leads to daughter “forum shopping” when she wants something. Whether she can go somewhere or do something shouldn’t depend on which parent she asks.

I don’t know what the bigger plan is. They had a similar walk out to protest the school shootings a couple years ago, along with several other schools around the country. That time I know the media was there to witness it. Some of the leaders coordinated with the administration and agreed to some ground rules. I think they left class and spent an hour or so on the football field, then returned to class. Some speeches were made, I’m not sure what all happened. There were a few teachers supervising to make sure things didn’t get out of hand from a safety point of view, although I think they mostly just quietly observed what went on.

I hope that this is similar, but I don’t know. I’m certainly not coordinating it. My guess is that it is being put together by some kids at the HS. Tbh, I don’t think there is really anything that will be accomplished, other than maybe bringing some general awareness to the issue.

I told her the same thing about safety in numbers. I said if a couple hundred kids walk out probably nothing happens. 5 of you do it and it could be a lot more severe.

That’s good to know about the discipline issue. Much to my annoyance, the school doesn’t do anything at all about unexcused absences, as far as I can tell.

My understanding of the underlying issue is that a girl was being bullied, and that it was a chronic problem. Not sure if the bully instigated a physical confrontation, but whether it was verbal or physical her retaliation was physical. She was disciplined and I think police were involved. My daughter showed me a picture of the bullied girl, and even though she is in HS she looks like an 80 pound 11 year old. So I’m guessing whatever retaliation she did couldn’t have been that serious. But that’s just my guess. I don’t know if she was expelled or what happened. Also my daughter said that nothing happened to the kid who was bullying her.

So that’s what I know, which is a bit of second hand info from my wife and a bunch of second hand info from a 13 year old who is getting it from sources that have an agenda and are unreliable. I’ll probably try to get some better info. There are a few people at school who I’m sure know what is going on, and I think would probably give me an off the record view of what really happened. My guess is that the truth is somewhere in the middle, that is usually the case.

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Barely a middle schooler, if she just started 7th. I don’t think they’ll hold her back on the math track for this. (And you could fight that.)

To me, far too soon to worry about a good kid protesting and it affecting her future. As it is, we have far to many who fear doing right.

The only consideration I’d have given my girls was is this a legit cause? Your D seems to feel it is. And this is a peaceful show of support, not aggression. I would tell mine that, first sign of anyone going wild (eg, damaging things,) she’s outta there.

Now you have to figure out how to deal with this, with the wife.

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I did make it clear to her that she didn’t have to return to class, but that she should follow any other instructions from teachers or administrators and that she had to be respectful. If that doesn’t happen, you lose any moral high ground, and open yourself up to much more severe consequences. And lose my support.

She definitely feels it is a legit cause. I agree in principle, but I do want to get a few more details about this specific case. If the facts aren’t what she thinks they are, then my opinion could change. If for example the girl pulled out a knife or gun, then I’m not ok with protesting the school cracking down on her. Anything less extreme i may give her my opinion, but will probably let her follow her conscience.

It’s not the first time my wife and I have clashed on parenting styles, and it won’t be the last I’m sure. We joke that we don’t stay together for the kids, we stay together in spite of them. 90% of our conflicts are about how to handle something with them. In a few years when they are all out of the house I think most of our issues with each other will go away!

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This didn’t even happen in your D’s middle school, but rather in the high school? Is the story correct about what happened?

I’m not saying I don’t believe what happened, just that it’s hard to keep the story accurate when so many are passing it around (game of telephone).

It would be far more powerful if students spoke before the School Board. The walkout could be construed as just a chance to miss class and create a stir.

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@dadof4kids , I’d be very proud of my daughters if they decided to walk out to protest something.

It’s rare that a middle schooler feels passionate enough about something to want to do something about it.

It’s rarer still for a middle schooler to choose to walk out to show how passionate she is at the subject.

As long as I did not disagree with the fundamental issue (for instance, say she was walking out because a student got caught vaping) there is no way I would stifle such bold decision making in my child.

Tell her “bravo” from me!

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I would tell my daughter that while her reasons are good and it’s good to want to stand up for the right thing, the reality is she doesn’t know all the information. Unless she was at all the principal, parent, and police meetings she has no way of knowing all the details. I would explain to her that details can make a big difference. I would then encourage her to get involved in her cause in another way. First, befriend and be kind of the bullied girl. She and her friends could then find productive ways to combat bullying (workshops, policy, posters…).

Honesty, my main reason for this approach is due to her age. Because she is so young, the fact is you have 5 more years to go before she graduates. Walking out in 7th grade could be a path to greater boat rocking in high school. For me, I just wouldn’t want to deal with that in a few years. I’m not saying that standing up is wrong. I’m just saying high school is something to “get through” as unscathed as possible and as a parent I don’t want to be fighting administration.

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I have always wanted my kid to do what’s right, not what’s easy. Standing up for someone she perceives as a victim is important. I also think it’s important to consider the impact of any kind of “social action”. This sounds like it shows support to the victim (important!) and signals to the administration that their process may not be working.

I would also then ask her to figure out how she can work for a solution. Can she approach the GC and principal for a better way to hear disputes? A better way to intermediate? A better way to prevent? If she identifies others who are participating in the walkout as allies who can help in this cause, better still.

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I agree with @Empireapple. Another consequence in letting her do this with second hand facts is that it opens up the same type of behavior in high school that could hurt her in the long run. I’d tell her she needs to be better informed, whatever that entails.

I’m for standing up for what you believe, but I think the protests are a bit of pact mentality at that age. They rile each other up.

If she does do it, I wouldn’t let her come home from school. She would need to do something more to do with bullying. Meet the principal, find a workshop. If she’s that serious, then she should truly get involved in the anti-bullying campaign.

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I second getting more information. We are lucky to live in a school district where the administration is extremely open about happenings in the school. If this incident had happened in our district, we would have all allowable details. So many times the facts don’t align with the stories floating around school.
But if this is a case of injustice and your kid wants to be involved in a organized, peaceful protest, I’d support her.
I also agree going to a school board meeting might be more affective.

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Standing up for one’s convictions is a trait that I admire, regardless of the age. Remaining quiet and not rocking the boat is not something I ever encouraged with my Ds. We see all too clearly what worrying about potential consequences is doing today, and that’s from adults. Good for your daughter!

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Why would you think the only two choices are either walking out in protest or keeping your mouth shut?

Why not encourage your daughter to stay in class, but write letters to the school board, to the school administration, to the press. Then make up some anti-bullying tee shirts to wear to school and get all her friends to do the same. Get the whole student body to wear orange one day, the anti-bullying color. Take photos and post them on social media.

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I think you did the right thing. We always taught our children that it’s important to stand up for what they believe in and to support others who may not have the power to speak up. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a good, peaceful protest. If we teach children not to make waves they grow into adults who don’t make waves.

I imagine it makes the bully feel pretty powerful to know they harassed someone enough that they did something that got them suspended or arrested, and likely made a mark on their permanent record, while they walked away with zero consequences. If the students want to protest bullies being allowed to get away with bullying then I’d support it.

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I think you were in a no win situation with your wife/daughter. I’ve realized by now that if I want my H to agree with my position, I need to prep him in advance ; )

Love that your D wants to stand up to bullying. I do agree though that walking out of class probably isn’t the best way to draw attention to the issue, especially in absence of all the facts.

Great teachable moment though!

19

I have not read the entire thread.

Consider tellng your daughter:

If you protest the school administrators’ handling of a bullying retaliation incident which involved physical retaliation, then you need to be prepared to live with the consequences.

It is unlikely that your daughter or the other students know as much as the school administrators know about the incident.

Even protestors can be wrong.

There are different ways of protesting.

Tell her that regardless of her decision that you will help her in any ethical way with her application to UCal-Berkeley.

20

My kid organized a walk out at her high school 18 months ago. Colleges at that time assured students that the reasonable exercise of first amendment rights would never adversely affect the college admissions process. I am proud of her. She took a lot of heat from some parents and some teachers but none from the administration.