I may have gotten myself in a bit of trouble tonight

Parent Cafe
41

You wrote:
“5 years from now, if she’s been involved in causes, advocacy, using her energies, beyond classes and clubs, she’ll be fine with even tough adcoms.”

And that just isn’t the case, and don’t understand the rest of your post. What does any of that have to do with your post claiming all will be OK with “tough adcoms”?

And the March of Our Lives leaders is a poor comparison, as they had massive national press, which clearly pushed the acceptance process, as one of the leaders was rejected everywhere-private and state schools-and then magically got accepted into Harvard.

If someone stages a walkout, especially one based on partial or incorrect information, nobody is going to congratulate them-or give them national exposure.

42

Let’s leave it at: our experiences differ.

Advocacy is not revolution.

If the thread turns to admit chances, 5 years from now, I’ll explain more on my thoughts.

43

There’s a balance with free speech and respecting authority. Without respect for authority, you get lawlessness. There’s a time and a place for protest and free speech, but it’s not during school. That’s not how the world works. I don’t get to stage walkouts because I disagree with my boss’s decision. Kids need to learn respect for authority, ESPECIALLY middle school kids. Schools are not a democracy, schools are run by adults. Adults are imperfect and sometimes make bad decisions. We all have…but kids need an environment of order, discipline and respect for others. They can disagree, they can be mad about it, they can talk freely to other students about it, they can even form a club, but they’re not allowed to disrupt school for everyone else.

44

Walkouts properly conducted do not disrupt others who may choose to remain. One can be perfectly respectful and well behaved while expressing one’s beliefs in a non violent way, even in school.

45

Just about any walkout in middle school-especially when the facts are muddled as in this case-is a bad idea.
And nobody said advocacy is revolution; no idea where that came from.

46

It actually IS how many places in the world work.

47

It seems very odd to me that a middle schooler is protesting something at the high school. I think walk-outs can have their place, but there are all sorts of other ways to protest that I would explore first. I was just at a Board of Education meeting this week protesting a really stupid hire our board made. They aren’t going to rescind the appointment, but I believe most of them realize now what a huge mistake they made and will do better in the future.

48

As I wrote above, my kid was an organizer for her high school’s walkouts in support of the victims of the mass shootings and in response to things happening in her high school.

She also was in contact with student organizers for other walkouts, including ones in which the students were disciplined for these types of actions.

Few of the college plans of the organizers in my kid’s school or elsewhere were negatively affected by these actions. Colleges which kids who organize and participate in such activities want to attend tend to look positively on this type of activity, and the disciplinary actions taken by their high schools generally do not reduce the kid’s chances of being accepted. In fact, they likely increase those chances.

My kid’s activism likely helped her to be accepted to the college which she attends.

49

Why are the bullies allowed to harass other students to the point of “snapping”? Where are the adults?

50

@crankyoldman I believe @lookingforward works at one of those “tough adcoms”.

51

So what will a protest teach 13 year Olds about bullying?

If an educator did a talk with break out sessions and useful material then maybe they would learn something useful.

52

Protests can be about showing solidarity and support for a person/persons as well. It also sends a message in general on what is and is not acceptable. That’s not a waste IMO.

53

Unfortunately, " respecting authority" has become code for “make no waves.” There are caluclated risks in life. Yes, on the side of protesting AND on the side of sitting back and accepting.

A peaceful protest, followed by legit activities on behalf of others, whether individuals or groups (and local or regional,) shows a kid is aware, concerned… and can get out of his or her box and be involved. Apparently, this IS a driving interest for this gal. Why emphasize (advise kids who ask) that “passions” for some club or the animal shelter or whatever are super, and then back off when it’s about a perceived injustice? (Yes, she needs to explore the facts.)

Our country was founded on protest and willingness to stand up. I hate to think we’ve lost that.

Not all protests are valued. Some will be misplaced. I think it’s silly when kids protest minor adaptations they need to make. But in today’s world, lots of focus on inequities, suppression, rights, and unfortunately, violence. It has affected too many kids in US high schools. It’s real.

I see no issue walking out for an hour or so. With my kids, I would have suggested returining to class, after, as an indication they understand this is still school.

For the record, mine never walked out (save for “senior skip day.”) But they did put their voices and energies into community needs. I’m grateful for the kids who will do what many adults will not.

That’s me. @cinnamon1212 not an adcom, but involved.

54

The one rule I would follow is “A happy wife makes for a happy life”. Side with your wife whatever it is : ) Otherwise you might win the battle but lose the war…

55

They are right there in the classrooms but they are limited in what they can do. They can’t constantly send the student to the principal’s office, they can’t physically touch the students at all so can’t make them sit in chairs or pay attention. The student may have an IEP or 529 plan that gives the student a pass for shouting out or disrupting the classroom, allows the student to walk around the classroom, hum, take breaks. I remember this kid used to take pencils and throw them at the ceiling, and you’d think that isn’t such a big deal but the other kids were annoyed and this went on all the time. The teachers can’t stop the students from ‘bumping’ each other traveling from class to class or can’t control who the students ask to sit with them at lunch or work with on project. I really liked the group of teachers who were in this program but I wouldn’t have called any of them powerful. Most were quiet and non-confrontational, not intimidating to a 13 year old bully.

This student’s (the bully) parents were constantly defending him and his actions. They insisted the ‘snapper’ be expelled and charged to the fullest. That was their right but they only cared about their child and not that he was very disruptive and bullying the others every day for 3 years. The other kids felt that was entirely unfair, but the 13 year olds aren’t really up on the laws, IEPs, 529 plans, the school board rules, the teacher’s union contracts, etc.

I remember my daughter being really mad that the bully got to stay and the ‘snapper’ was punished for doing something they all wanted to do (smack the bully). Doing a walk out to protest the administration doing what they had to do was not going to change anything. Any student who hits another, with or without cause, is likely to be expelled.

56

I hate to say it…but…the world needs more kids that would stop an actual bully with a punch in the stomach…

57

It’s a bit disingenuous to encourage a middle schooler who doesn’t have all the facts to walk out when it’s someone else’s kid, when your kids “never walked out.”
A lot easier to give advice than to follow it, apparently.

58

I think this has been an interesting discussion, and frankly a much more robust one than I expected. I have had a couple threads that took off like this, when I was relaying what I thought was a kind of funny, interesting anecdote from my life that brought out people’s feelings about different issues. Unfortunately the last one denigrated into a political discussion, I appreciate that no one has done that so we can keep this thread open, thank you for keeping everything civil and non-political.

A bit more information:

I have a bit more information, although I’m still missing some. It sounds like the initial facts I was given are at least somewhat correct. There was some incident at the school, and at least allegations that it was chronic bullying that led to the incident. I don’t know what exactly happened, but the confrontation got physical, and the allegedly bullied girl was disciplined harshly, either a long term suspension or expulsion, I’m not sure which. The parents of the bullied girl are threatening to sue the school. And the administration is digging in that regardless of what happened up to that point, any physical confrontation will be punished harshly.

A letter was emailed out to parents about this a few days ago. Frankly I get so many unnecessary emails from the school that this one was unopened until someone told me to look for it. It wasn’t clear what it was about until it was opened. It was a letter from the principal, giving vague information (due to privacy) about the situation. Basically it stated that there has been spill over into social media about the schools actions, but that regardless of how a situation gets there, physical confrontation is never ok and will be dealt with harshly.

So that’s about what I expected.

Honestly, I’m personally on the fence. The bullied girl shouldn’t have gotten physical with the bully, even assuming it was deserved. And if she was going to retaliate, at school was not the proper place. The school is in a bit of a situation, because they can’t ignore that she threw a punch (or whatever) in school. At the same time, I think “zero tolerance” replacing reasonable discretion is a problem, and they should do a better job of taking the entirety of the circumstances into account. I don’t think that will happen, and I don’t know a practical way for that change to happen in our society where protecting ones self and organizations from liability is the primary concern.

The school probably does about as good as they can on the bullying front, honestly. It is a point of focus that we hear about constantly. They bring in speakers and have assemblies. A coach was fired largely for allowing bullying on her team a couple years ago. At the same time, there are 1600 kids in that building, and stuff will happen.

I don’t think really there is much for the kids to ask for that is remotely realistic to be given.

So what’s the point of the walk out? A percieved injustice has happened, and I think more likely than not it really was an injustice and not just a percieved one. Can the situation be corrected? Not really. Will anything change? Very slight chance they are slightly less harsh on the next kid, but I seriously doubt it. Again, liability avoidance is the priority over good judgement. That isn’t just our school, that is every school and pretty much every workplace.

So why do something that will most likely result in no positive change but will result in disciplinary action against you?

Because an injustice happened, and I stand in solidarity with the person it happened to even though I don’t know her personally. I won’t be expelled like she was, but I may be suspended and have my grade affected and some privileges revoked. And I’m ok with that. That’s her point of view.

I’m headed out of town for the weekend in a few minutes, so I probably won’t talk to D much about this until Sunday night. But I’m 99% sure that after I tell her what I know and get whatever new info she has that this is how the conversation will go. And while I think there are some good reasons to tell her that this isn’t the hill to die on, I’m not going to. I think it’s a good lesson, frankly. Sometimes you stand for what you believe in, and stand up for people without a voice (Because frankly this is a girl and a family that I think no one really cares about. There are probably kids who would be treated differently because of who their parents are, and my daughter might very well be one. But this girl is a nobody as far as the school is concerned.). And sometimes when you do that there are consequences. If she is willing to take the consequences for standing up for someone, then I’m proud of her frankly. I don’t know that I would have been willing to do the same at 13.

59

Some of you may remember the 2011 demonstrations in Wisconsin when public employee unions were decimated by our governor, affecting public school teachers. The demonstrations started with a high school students near the state capitol walking out. They were joined eventually by public employees and then the public at large. Leaderships skills can be learned in this process as well as the importance of moral action against injustice being more important than business as usual.

Though there is a cost to ignoring business as usual, which is why this discussion is a worthwhiole.

60

I told my wife that last night. I said that if it was happening to her 30 years ago, her brother would have put a stop to it. And more than likely, the brother and the bully would have had a 30 minute detention and both be told to not let it happen again. Instead we try so hard to protect kids that we ultimately do the opposite sometimes. There is no self policing. I would never have dreamed of doing the things some kids do now. Partially because I frankly am a better human being than that, but also because I knew that if I pulled some of that obnoxious and anti-social behavior that a butt whipping was waiting for me around the corner. That fear is gone.