I prefer the Philadelphia style, “Yous guys” plural.
Maybe we should all go southern and stick with honey, sweetie and all y’all. But really, I don’t see how it’s any skin of anyone’s nose to ask in situations where it might come up where students would be addressed directly by name. That is not every 500 person lecture hall. I see nothing wrong with broaching this at dorm group ice breakers or whatever. “Do you have a preferred nickname or pronoun?” If not you just say no and move on. BAM!
My personal favorite go-to source for different LGBTQ+ terms (though it’s certainly not perfect, it is a great, handy guide):
http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2015/03/the-genderbread-person-v3/
If people prefer a particular nickname and/or pronoun it’s up to them to mention that as it comes up, not take up class time announcing their preferences. In a classroom setting, I don’t believe it’s going to be a simple 5-minute introduction. I doubt that every kid knows what gender neutral means or what pronoun choices there are, so some class time would have to be taken to give explanations and answer questions. That may be a great topic for a diversity class, but that’s not what the physics or calculus students are paying to learn.
When you say nonbinary people want to be called by their “preferred pronouns” are you saying they simply state whether they prefer “he,” “she,” or “gender neutral,” or that they say which gender neutral pronoun they prefer? There are several perfectly good gender neutral pronouns in the English language (they, them, their) and I have no objection to using them for anyone who wants to be referred to in a nonbinary way, but I don’t care for the sound of “ze” or “hir.” I prefer to use standard English instead.
In a discussion based class, seminar, or small group or a dorm based freshman student activity professors, students and student leaders are all addressing one another by a name of some kind. I went to school back in the dark ages and in groups like that introductions were made and when a professor or instructor called roll for the first time they asked that you let them know if you “go by” something other than your legal name as written on the attendance roster. It doesn’t take extra time it is part of the introduction process. The instructions linked at the top of the thread give those who are leading classes and groups the background information ahead of time so that if students offer some preferred pronoun other than the typical male/female versions they will have a working understanding of what that’s about and NOT take up extra time going round and round about it or trying to grasp the concept.
Actually, the “awareness” blurb should streamline proceedings. And again, nobody is asking kids to look deep within their souls and examine their identification on the spot. This isn’t like foreign language classes where one is supposed to pick a class “name” other than the one they are comfortable using regularly or trying to pick ice cream from 31 Flavors. If your given name is Mike and you go by Mike and you use the pronoun “him” etc. then you just introduce yourself as Mike or stick your hand up when called and leave the rest as is. If this window of opportunity applies to you then you will know it and take advantage of it with the preferred pronoun that you have pre-identified but otherwise I imagine students will just move on through it as they always would have (if it comes up).
@austinmshauri my nonbinary kid introduces themself in classes by saying "my name is ___, my pronouns are “they” and “them.” Done.
“There are several perfectly good gender neutral pronouns in the English language (they, them, their) and I have no objection to using them for anyone who wants to be referred to in a nonbinary way, but I don’t care for the sound of “ze” or “hir.” I prefer to use standard English instead.”
Your preferences are only pertinent to what you choose to call yourself. The fact that you don’t care for a pronoun doesn’t excuse you from using it if someone asks you to refer to them that way.
By the way, for those of you not current college age or younger, there has been a significant increase in the number of kids in that generation who are nonbinary or transgender–and their peers are used to this and quite matter-of-fact.
That’s an interesting assertion. What is it, exactly, that obligates me to accede to somebody’s wishes in this regard? I think that’s it’s certainly common courtesy to address people as they prefer to be addressed–but what’s the limit to that, if any? If somebody prefers “ze” to “they,” how strong is the obligation to use “ze” if one thinks it is a terrible-sounding addition to English? How many pronouns is it necessary to learn?
In other words, what if a professor announced at the beginning of class the following: “I am sensitive to concerns that some people prefer not to be referred to by gendered pronouns like he and she. I am willing to use “they” and “them” for anybody with such concerns, but I have neither the time nor the inclination to learn a bunch of other pronouns, at least until they become widely accepted in common usage.” What’s wrong with that, if anything?"
“I don’t like that your name is Ashley. I refuse to use the name Ashley; I only use Nick, Max, and Clint. You are now Clint.”
Or even, “Ashley has historically been a boy’s name, and I dislike the social trend of using it for girls. I’m going to call you Jane, instead. That’s a perfectly good English girl’s name, so there’s no reason you should object.”
“I would prefer to be called Abraxas, Master of the Universe and Lord of the Vast Domains. Please use my full title at all times.”
I think the issue here is: what is too absurd to have to do? Personally, I don’t like using “they” as a singular pronoun, but I really don’t like a neologism like “ze.”
If someone wants to be referred to in a gender neutral way and I use a gender neutral word to refer to them, there’s only a problem if the issue isn’t with being referred to in a gender neutral way (which is their right), it’s with being allowed to direct other’s specific vocabulary (which isn’t). Their right to choose to use gender neutral pronouns doesn’t trump my right to not use made up words or require me to use words incorrectly. Ze, xe, and per aren’t English pronouns, and hir isn’t a gender neutral word, it’s a feminine one.
Dozens (if not more) gender neutral pronouns have been coined in the last 150 years so while binary males are generally referred to as he, his, himself, and binary females are generally referred to as she, her, herself, there are literally dozens of coined gender neutral pronouns (each with its own conjugation). It’s unrealistic to expect the general population to learn different sets for each gender neutral person we meet. I agree wholeheartedly with the opinion that people should be able to choose which gender (male, female, neutral) they wish to be referred to as, but I don’t agree that each person also gets their own personal set of pronouns.
That’s exactly what my kids German teacher did, he assigned new names to kids if their names were not German enough for his liking. My daughter got a new name even though there are several kids in Germany that have her given name. I have a very common first name, for three years in middle school PE classes all kids with the same first name where called by their last name. No one asked us what name we preferred, that’s just how things were. No one would have thought to make a fuss over it.
JAQUES
I do not like her name.
ORLANDO
There was no thought of pleasing you when she was christened.
(As You Like It, Act 3, Scene 2)
Ashley, Nick, Max, and Clint are proper nouns which name specific people. Pronouns aren’t names. If changing one gender neutral pronoun to another gender neutral pronoun means it no longer refers to you, you’re using it as a proper noun, not a pronoun.
"my nonbinary kid introduces themself in classes by saying “my name is ___, my pronouns are “they” and “them.” Done.”
Why not just stop at “my name is ___”? I don’t announce “my name is i * and my pronouns are she and her.” Sorry, this just seems a little too look-at-me-and-make-sure-everyone-knows-I-float-between-different-genders-and-aren’t-I-special.
Is it critical for the correction to be public? Let’s say there’s a classroom discussion and another student says, “I disagree with what she (referring to your child) said with respect to Point X.” Would your child jump up and immediately make it known “I am not a she! How dare you!” or quietly say something to the other student after class?
And regarding ze, hir and so forth - wake me up when those become real English words, not something made up by people with too much time on their hands. And yes, dfb, I know, I know, all words are made up at one point.
From Hunt:
“I would prefer to be called Abraxas, Master of the Universe and Lord of the Vast Domains. Please use my full title at all times.”
I think the issue here is: what is too absurd to have to do? Personally, I don’t like using “they” as a singular pronoun, but I really don’t like a neologism like “ze.”"
I don’t like using “they” as a singular pronoun either. I suppose it would be unpolitic to suggest “it” because that’s traditionally associated with things, rather than people, but “they” isn’t correct either.
Actually, @Pizzagirl, I’m mostly with you (and @Hunt, and a couple others) on this one. Ze and hir may well enter the language in natural use,* but they haven’t yet—and the track record of imposed pronouns is less than promising, to put it mildly.
I’m quite willing to call my students what they want to be called, but one the (quite rare) occasions I’ve been asked to use created pronouns for them, I’ve warned them that it’ll take me quite a while to learn them, if I ever do—learning a new pronoun wouldn’t be so hard, but I’m rather horrible with names, and if you’re imposing a specific pronoun for a specific person (rather than a group of people), that’s actually learning a second name for someone. (Not to mention that telling me your preferred pronoun is, say, ze tells me nothing about what the objective or possessive cases sound like, which is a problem.)
- Please note that I'm saying nothing about entering dictionaries or such here. Dictionaries are purely trailing indicators of language change.
It would be more efficient for the nonbinary student to say it to the entire class, publicly, rather than take each and every person aside, who will ever address them.
And since it’s not a shameful or socially inappropriate thing to ask others to call oneself by a different gender or “they”, why shouldn’t they just say it during class intros and get it out of the way? Because that’s what it is - getting it out of the way, and not necessarily the student trying to cause drama, or get undue attention.
As a fellow student, I would just take it as, that student is comfortable, or working on getting comfortable, with his/her/their own gender identity, and I’d be happy to comply.
At my D’s first dorm meeting everyone was asked to introduce themselves and indicate what their “PGP” was. PGP = Preferred Gender Pronoun. And this is at a women’s college…
I’m sorry, I find that galling at a women’s college. If you’re not willing to be part of a sisterhood of women, more power to you, you gotta do what you gotta do – but then you don’t really belong at a women’s college, except as a “grandfathered”-in guest.
(Oops, grandfathered! Maybe I should stand up in class and say - If anyone ever desires to use the expression “grandfathered in” for any situation I may be in, I expect you to say “grandmothered,” else I will be horribly offended)