"I Too Am Harvard"

<p>I’m willing to trust you get it. </p>

<p>But I don’t adhere to this original sin idea that we have to spend a lifetime working to rectify because it is an immutable white culture assumption, traced back to our ancestors. For me, that comes close to saying it’s not really our fault-- that since we inherited it, some of it we’re powerless against, always running a hamster wheel. I like to think we can filter, we can think, we can test our assumptions, we can be more open. </p>

<p>Someone could answer you, dietz, with: see, it’s so old, it exists, we can’t do much and the H kids should understand that. I like to think we can be aware of our own present day actions, assumptions and choices, that we are not destined to repeat the errors of our fathers, so to say. </p>

<p>“Although systemic change takes many decades, there are pressing questions for me and, I imagine, for some others like me if we raise our daily consciousness on the perquisites of being light-skinned. What will we do with such knowledge? As we know from watching men, it is an open question whether we will choose to use unearned advantage, and whether we will use any of our arbitrarily awarded power to try to reconstruct power systems on a broader base” (Book of Peggy).</p>

<p>Peggy McIntosh doesn’t discuss ancestry and reparations (Dietz, you do have trouble with reading). She asks for reflection on “unearned advantage.” When students at Harvard say they are made uncomfortable by stereotyping, an responsible answer might be to consider that they do receive regular, degrading comments and not to immediately say, “I once had a black person offend me” or “get over it.” A first response to understanding white privilege might be to listen and hear the experiences of others. That should not be traumatic, but the fact that many on this thread find it traumatic leads me to believe they are vested in protecting white privilege.</p>

<p>^yes, when students at Harvard (who I assume do NOT have a lot of time on their hands) take the time to to help raise awareness it behooves us to listen, to believe their experiences and for goodness sakes, LEARN from their experiences. the posts in this thread that deny their experiences, malign them etc.are very sad and very telling.</p>

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<p>What is your definition of white privelege? Is it the absence of encountering any sort of racism, including comments?</p>

<p>No, collegealum, it means that by and large, your very whiteness lends you a level of trust and respectability from other whites, that is by and large not offered to blacks and (some) others of color. There have been many, many examples in this thread. I have personally seen it when my H and I are out together. I get a pass because I’m white, nothing more. H does not, and more often than you’d think.</p>

<p>LF: See, there ARE ways to make up for original sin…and it is the duty of every Catholic to do so. First, one admits that one is sinful by nature. Then one accepts that one’s nature will continue to be sinful . BUT it is the job of each person to spend their lives NOT being sinful and making amends whenever one does sin. However, no matter how one eventually lives one’s live, each and everyone STARTS out already having sinned. And, in dogma, unless you partake of the ritual to cleanse this original sin…you take it with you …always.</p>

<p>Same thing here…white people are by nature oppressive. This nature developed over the course of generations because we continued to be oppressive. So not only are we ( I) responsible for all past oppressive behaviors and their negative effects, I am also responsible for my own. By simply being born, I start with a load of ‘bad stuff’ for which I need to atone just to get to ground zero. (it’s tough being Catholic)</p>

<p>The fact that I now have brought two additional oppressors in the form of little white kids into the cycle, well…that just makes me even more responsible and gives me an even heavier burden of atonement.</p>

<p>Tell me…what is the appropriate ritual to atone for past generational oppression? One would need to go through this process and take care of the bad stuff in ones’ starter kit of oppressive guilt, before one can even begin to work on not adding additional bad stuff one is bound to incur - because remember - it is in our nature.</p>

<p>mamalion:

[quote]
Peggy McIntosh doesn’t discuss ancestry and reparations (Dietz, you do have trouble with reading). [’/quote] </p>

<p>But at least I have manners. But also I have difficulty taking anyone seriously that out of hand dismisses ‘my’ inter racial experiences (the bus) - but elevates ‘theirs’ to top level.</p>

<p>But like I said, I get it…simply being white means I better get on with the job of atonement…mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa…I get it!!!</p>

<p>dietz, I can’t be the only one who finds your snide and condescending tone offensive-and it has nothing to do with race. No matter the topic, the way you’re talking down to LF devalues what you’re attempting to say. </p>

<p>I am well aware I hold a minority opinion when I participate in certain discussions. If you will notice the one or two other posters who also held a minority have left this thread…plenty of condescending and snide behavior on both side.</p>

<p>But, you’re right…I don’t like myself when I get this way…so …carry on and enjoy.</p>

<p>Couldn’t stay away…</p>

<p>If students from one our nation’s premier institutions of higher education decide to publish a work of this nature, then they and you all should be willing to have it be subjected to intellectual inquiry. If indeed it is supposed to foment change, than it has to first convince. Regrettably, however, it does not entirely convince due to the method, the inclusion of chaff, and due to internal inconsistencies. However, if anyone that raises a logical argument that questions their position or requests clarifications of contradictions is maligned as in denial about their permanently ingrained racism, as not getting it because of stupidity or maliciousness, as scared of losing white privilege, as un-compassionately minimizing of the experience of others, and so on, then change is not going to come. Why? Because that attitude is dismissive and does not promote dialogue and understanding. If I were to use your tactic, I might even go so far as to say it is racist because it presumes bad motives in the challengers merely for being white, since real proof of bad motives is lacking. Indeed, I could turn the tables and suggest some of you are afraid of losing black immunity from criticism (no one can criticize the actions of a black person without being called a racist, as we’ve seen in the case of our President), and losing impunity from allegations of reverse racism (since only white people can be racist, never black people). These young people may even be afraid of losing victim status, which starts to become tenuous when one is a Harvard student. </p>

<p>It is impossible for all but the most evil to deny certain facts of history or ongoing incidents of racism. Please stop insinuating that is what we are trying to do by questioning some aspects (not all) of this particular project done in the year 2014 at an elite college. The questions that I, at least, am raising have more to do with how to move forward productively in race relations instead of always looking backward. So long as skin color always defines the black experience such that every single thing said or done to a black person must have been said or done because of skin color–no matter how many people of other races testify to experiencing similar comments themselves–then moving forward is not possible. So long as black people chose to align themselves in all-black groups based on perceived oppression due to skin color, then they can expect others to continue to view them as a group defined by skin color. If they cry foul over silly things like someone mistakenly thinking they may like rap music just because most rappers are black, then really they are not interested in moving forward. If they choose to say look at me, poor me, I’ve been abused and misunderstood, rather than taking effective steps to resolve issues directly with the offenders and campus authorities, then they want to keep looking back. </p>

<p>If they chose to form their own groups, rather than trying to become part of the existing groups in the Harvard community, then they are not seeking to foment an equitable community. They are essentially assuming racism on the part of those allegedly non-black/colorless groups. (After all, weren’t they started by slave owners?) They are saying, in the case of the theatre group, we already know that “they” will never select plays that express that elusive black perspective, select plays with black characters, or give enough opportunity to black actors and actresses. Is that actually true of Harvard? Have they ever tried? I think not, because they have a problem with figuring out which identity they want to claim in any given moment. Are they suffering in the ranks of the oppressed or are they brilliant achievers at Harvard? It’s a tough balance to manage. For example, suppose a theater group other than theirs chose to present a play like “A Raisin in the Sun,” would some black students protest that that particular play was selected? Would they claim it was a poor or even offensive choice because it could reinforce stereotypes, given the dialect spoken by the black characters? Somehow, I don’t doubt it. At D’s school, black students protested when a certain music video created by auto-tuning the actual words of a black man, became very popular and was making the rounds on campus and nationally. </p>

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<p>Right?? Where is all this defensiveness coming from? Why is any of this threatening to some people?</p>

<p>Probably good Tim Wise hasn’t come up yet, that would be way too much for many posters here to handle…</p>

<p>Off-topic, but I keep reading this thread title as “I Am Too Harvard” and thinking that it will about a student saying they are “too Harvard” to go to any other school.</p>

<p>The power of punctuation. </p>

<p>I like that phrase. :)</p>

<p>If you want to argue “permanently ingrained racism,” I think dietz has an angle going. Btw, D, my Catholic relatives were of the Eastern variety that (no offense intended to anyone) I joked picked and chose which rules to follow. </p>

<p>You’ve laid out a number of points one should follow, GFG. I don’t think anyone called you racist. Some ways of thinking may be. Some people may need to questions their own attitudes, assumptions, and “expectations.” We aren’t sitting around a dinner table together, seeing when another rolls his/her eyes or shrugs shoulders to convey, “I dunno.” We only have these words. </p>

<p>I too find Dietz’ comments offensive. </p>

<p>GFG–the act of coming together to create this awareness campaign does not imply these same students will only participate in this group while excluding other opportunities. And calling their choice to participate in this "racist"is so old and really misses the mark. They are not assuming anything about white students, they are simply expressing their experiences and trying to educate others. Harvard perceived it as a worthwhile endeavor and so do I.</p>

<p>Myturnnow, you are not the first on here to make that claim, but repeating something doesn’t make it so. Evidence is required. My evidence, already stated several times, for the fact that they are indeed saying something unpleasant about white people is their statement that they plan to expand this project to other “people of color.” So all students but the colorless, who I assume are the white students, can be part of this project highlighting cultural or racial insensitivity. That leaves white people as the guilty ones and the only guilty ones, and also presumes they themselves are never the victims of cultural or racial insensitivity or if they are, it doesn’t hurt as bad due to the cushion of white privilege. (The latter being an unfortunate condition they are presumed to be born with and will never shake, like the original sin metaphor dietz proposed.) What is YOUR proof that the Harvard students are, in your words, “not assuming anything about white students”?</p>

<p>Secondly, I don’t know dietz. He may or may not be what you accuse him of being. I found his sin metaphor to be apt, however. Please remember that not everyone has the time or ability to carefully craft each sentence of each post to avoid having some word or phrase being pounced on if it wasn’t chosen just right. </p>

<p>GFG, so ypu dont subscribe to the notion that only and all white people are racist?</p>

<p>Links or quotes would help. What evidence? Old saying, the burden of proof is on the one who thinks something exists, not the one who doesn’t.
Personally, I didn’t hear anger in the npr interview. </p>

<p>GFG you were the one making the racist claim. why wouldn’t you need to provide evidence of YOUR claim?</p>