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<p>I know you asked this from DonnaL, not me, but I’m going to chime in anyway. For me the pain of living as I was living had to exceed the pain of changing. I felt I was doomed to be 244 pounds. I thought my problems were just too big to solve. And I really felt I couldn’t live without my drug of choice–food. But then the balance of pain shifted and I got to discover a world of possibility.</p>
<p>To reduce kitchen clutter…</p>
<p>I have given every family member one drawer in the kitchen, I swipe my hand across the counter, open the drawer and empty in their stuff (keys, paper, etc). When the drawer gets too full to open/close I give them 12 hours notice THEN…I empty their drawer in their bathroom. I’ve learned the bathroom gets their attention faster than their room - especially if you deposit the contents in front of the toilet.</p>
<p>LOL! @Missypie He’s not helping to become the man of your dreams! Oh well, everyone makes mistakes!</p>
<p>I go beserk when people leave their stuff all over and clutter the house. Recently I’ve started throwing their stuff in their rooms and shutting the door. Out of sight, out of mind! I like the idea of clutter bins, though, like the one I have for my dogs’ toys.</p>
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<p>Sounds like, unfortunately, crisis is often the tipping point? Maybe if you had been 210 and were “meh” in your marriage, you’d still be exactly there?</p>
<p>A friend at work who was an alcoholic finally went to rehab when some ticked off but caring clients contacted someone else at the firm about his behavior. (I say caring because a non-caring client would have just fired him.) His family life was already moderately screwed up, but the prospect of losing his career was the crisis he needed.</p>
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<p>At our house, we don’t have a parents’ bathroom and a kids’ bathroom - we have boys and girls. I try to avoid the boys’ but it could almost be featured on one of those hoarders shows. I did finally move the three pieces of thick lumber out of one of the sinks.</p>
<p>Missypie, thanks for the compliment. </p>
<p>Have you looked at any of the FlyLady solutions to clutter? I really like her. [FlyLady.net:</a> Your personal online coach to help you gain control of your house and home](<a href=“http://www.flylady.com/]FlyLady.net:”>http://www.flylady.com/)</p>
<p>I have long had an answer for clutter in my own home. “Toy jail”. Now, toy jail was a box that left-out toys ended up in, and work had to be done to free a toy from jail. But I extended the concept. For a long time, there was a big box in the corner behind the couch, and at the end of the day, anything that wasn’t in its place ended up in toy jail. “Have you seen my notebook?” “Check toy jail.” </p>
<p>If toy jail got to be too packed with stuff, I transferred the contents to a garbage bag (after 24 hours warning) and dropped the contents off at Goodwill. I did remove my husband’s dirty socks before sending the rest. </p>
<p>I also highly recommend getting rid of stuff or not get it in the first place. Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without–it’s an old recession mantra. If you’re thinking about buying clothes, don’t. Look in the depths of your closet. If you want to buy books, go to the library. If you want to watch a movie, rent it or download it, don’t buy it. And so on. Sell the books you’ll never read again or donate them to the library book sale. Scan the old photos and make them into a book with mypublisher.com or blurb.com and then get rid of them. Give away the old Beanie Babies as Halloween treats (thanks for that idea, EK, working on persuading my daughter) ;-)</p>
<p>But dmd77, ***I ***follow those rules but there are four other people living in my house. My husband is still *BUYING *Beanie Babies. When H was out of town I filled up five garbage bags with things to pitch (more waiting to be donated.) I had to take the stuff to a dumpster because H goes through the trash when I get rid of stuff. (D got rid of some old lipstick and H took that out of the trash.)</p>
<p>It’s an issue that I’m just stuck on. If one can only control one’s own behavior, but the behavior of others has a negative impact on your life, what do you do? Sure, you leave the spouse who beats you. But clutter and a house swarming with Beanie Babies does not rise to that level.</p>
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<p>Me, too!!!</p>
<p>Hmmm, if putting it in their room is not inspiring, what about simply confiscating them? </p>
<p>Fair warning, I tried this with messy DD as a little girl, bagged up the toys left out and put them in the attic for weeks at a time. It never worked with her, she would play with a stick and a box before she would put anything away!</p>
<p>Oh, I see. Is there a room that can be all yours, that is the way you want it to be? Then maybe you could have a place to retreat to when you’re feeling overwhelmed.</p>
<p>My sympathies: if my husband did not share my dislike of clutter I think I’d go nuts!</p>
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<p>Yeah, the problem comes with having too much in the first place. If you only have one pair of shoes and your shoes are in toy jail, you go look for them. If you have five pairs of shoes, a pair may stay in toy jail until they’re outgrown.</p>
<p>Thick Lumber?! That may be beyond the scope of what I imagined!</p>
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<p>Actually, we did this in reverse. The house stays neat, but husband’s many magazines, outdoor equipment, computer junk, disorganized papers, books, etc. stay in one room downstairs. (former basement.) </p>
<p>**I deleted my former post, missypie, because I started it before this thread got rolling, and was interrupted, and by the time I came back you all had moved on. 
But the GC was a great accomplishment for me. Just surviving.</p>
<p>Does your hubby know how much all this clutter (can’t believe he’s still buying BBs!) is getting to you? I think you’re going to have to get his help and buy in or the kids won’t see any reason to cooperate.</p>
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<p>You got it!</p>
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<p>Kind of a bad example for me to use, because H can’t throw things away. He can’t even throw away spoiled food. It’s a deep psychological thing relating to his parents/childhood. Poor thing - when he goes through the neighbors’ trash and retrieves some “treasure” I know he expects the praise that his dad would have given him but he doesn’t get that praise from me. It’s really a case for professionals to handle. (Back to the animal analogy - maybe I should adopt the tone of voice that a loving cat owner uses when her cat presents her with a mouse.)</p>
<p>But could you throw things away for him? He must know that he has this problem, and may even welcome someone else doing what he can’t do. </p>
<p>I think I’d start with one area of the house- maybe the family room/kitchen or the living room, and make it a clutter free zone. Live with it for a month or so, and then go on to the next room. If the kids have clutter, they can keep it to their own rooms. But if you could get the general living areas presentable, you might be able to put up with the rest until all the kids leave. Then your hubby and his “collections” could take over one of their rooms, and you could shut the door again!</p>
<p>Right now, at my house, the living, dining, kitchen, family room, daughter’s (gone) room, guest room, master bedroom and all baths are neat as a pin and clutter free. But the downstairs room and my son’s room look like a tornado struck.
I close the doors.</p>
<p>Clutter? Haven’t a clue. I am the neat one – the other three slobs. Two are grown-up and out of the house, and when I absolutely can’t stand DH’s clutter he spends a night at his studio and knows he needs to clean up to come home. And in the process he cleans up his studio too.</p>
<p>DD told me the problem was I grew up in a neat house and I just have to accept that I don’t live in one anymore.</p>
<p>When the kids come home now I want it to be pleasant, and I want them to want to come so I sweetly ask them to straighten up when I can’t take it or tell them I’m hiding out in my room. So far they want my company.</p>
<p>Ah, Dr. Laura. Well, it would be hard for me to accept anything she had to say. A dear friend lived on her floor frosh year in college and she can entertain us for quite a while with Laura’s faux pas. To me she is a homophobe and political Neanderthal.</p>
<p>However, it seems another version of “Don’t sweat the small stuff.” Our perfectionistic personalities don’t seem to match the imperfect world we live in. H’s <em>are</em> annoying at times, but then again, so are we!!</p>
<p>Shout out to DonnaL, Chintzy and everyone else succeeding in major changes. Kudos galore.</p>
<p>My biggest change which improved my relationship with my son and removed a lot of stress from my life was give him control of his own life. Totally. He is 20, a rising senior at Williams, and has run into some major stumbles. Our relationship had devolved into my giving him unwanted advice, his trying to avoid it, my anger at his not returning texts and calls…well you get the idea. A downward spiral.</p>
<p>He has significant ADD, and we have always been accepting close because we were allies in managing his life.</p>
<p>Well, I guess he declared a declaration of independence. He found a therapist, got a research job with a professor (on Seneca!) for one half of the summer and a job making wraps for the other. He isn’t coming home at all.</p>
<p>A miracle happened and I shifted totally in my relationship with him. If he screws up, he screws up. His life.</p>
<p>I love him unconditionally and he has been calling home a lot and being very loving himself.</p>
<p>It was a hard (though necessary) transition to make.</p>
<p>missypie - try unclutterer.com - the forums there may have some useful advice for hoarders. One thing I’ve heard is that throwing things out for them doesn’t really settle the problem. Good luck!</p>
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<p>Ahhh. I’m sure you were glad to know that it’s a mere problem of accepting what you cannot change! :)</p>
<p>I’ve taken a similar stance with my oldest, mythmom, and it’s tough, but liberating at the same time.</p>
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<p>No, it won’t cure the husband, but it might make life tolerable for missypie. She needs to be able to live comfortably while he works on his issues, which may be lifelong.</p>