As my last child is a soon to be college graduate, I have popped back into this community after some time away. Looking over the active threads, it is interesting to reflect on the journey my DD and DS have taken. Hoping to pay forward some hard won wisdom for the next group of CC community members. Please add any wisdom you can share. I’ll start:
If you end up at a highly selective college, be prepared that almost all clubs/student organizations/service groups will very competitive and you will likely face multiple rejections. Just because an organization exists at your campus, does not mean you can automatically join. This can be extremely stressful and at times heartbreaking.
You may be able to be admitted test optional, however, if you wish to pursue many types of competitive internships (think consulting/IB/CS/finance), ACT/SAT scores are often a required component of your internship application. This as well as your early college GPA need to pass the initial screen.
3.Having participated in the parent welcoming groups for new admits at 2 different selective institutions, I’ve learned there is a “new” procedure whereby parents/ alumni are asked “do you have someone you feel would be a great fit for XYZ university? -if so please refer them via this form.” I have not seen this before this year and must admit, am a bit disgusted by it.
Thank you for starting this topic. Since our S25 is starting their college journey next fall, I don’t have any advice to add as of yet. I’m looking forward to reading the replies on this thread.
Number one is not universal. My kids (at selective U’s) did not find a single competitive activity except for sports teams and some of the music ensembles…and in every instance, if you weren’t varsity caliber there were plenty of opportunities which were not competitive at all. And if you weren’t at the musical level required for the main university symphony, there were dozens of other groups which were basically “you play the flute?! great. We practice on Tuesday night”.
Even some of the theatrical stuff … Pretty much a role for everyone. Someone who can’t dance doesn’t expect to be cast as Pippin or a Shark in West Side Story but there were always roles for anyone who could shuffle in the background!!!
I wonder which activities you would describe as “competitive”.
Same here. My kid (at a selective LAC) has been able to join whatever clubs she’s wanted to join, and she’s also started a new club with some friends. This includes the college newspaper, which I know is a notoriously difficult club to join at some universities. I think that at the very least, questions about access to clubs and the degree of competition in this respect are worth asking when looking at schools, but the answers to those questions will be different depending on the school (or the club).
Note: she didn’t try for sports or competitive music ensembles, which might be a different story. But had she been interested, I know there are club sports and music ensembles at various levels for those who can’t clear the highest bar or were not varsity recruits or walk-ons.
Aren’t many – most? – preprofessional clubs competitive? Like the Consulting Club, or the Investment Banking Club. At some schools volunteer opportunities are limited. I think that’s a bad thing.
The competitive clubs have included" honor societies" (which are just service/volunteer groups), business / pre-med /pre-law clubs and frats - the process to join usually includes 3-4 rounds similar to the traditional greek life process. Club tennis for example had over 200 try out for less than 10 available spots. Likewise, very large numbers vying for the 10-15 spots in different dance/theater groups. I am glad to hear it is not this way at all highly rejective institutions, but definitely something to inquire about when considering different institutions.
Many colleges that we toured suggested that tour guiding was a competitive activity (especially at places where the guides were paid). At UCLA getting to be a tour guide was harder than getting admitted in the first place (about a 2% success rate).
Wouldn’t this depend on the size of the college’s student population and whether the size of the club scales with it? For example, getting into the general-interest student newspaper is likely to be much more competitive at a large college than at a small college.
Veering away from the competitive club discussion…
Students: College is a quick 4-year blip in what we hope will be a very long, happy and prosperous life. So much emphasis is put on WHERE a student gains admission rather than WHAT they do while they are there. After day one of freshman year, no one cares (or probably even remembers) what college you got into.
Unless the family name is on a campus building, chances are nothing will be handed to you on a silver platter. Whether you are at a T20 or a T120, YOU are in charge of your own destiny and have to do the work to get there. Don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t get to where you want to be just because you aren’t at an Ivy. You may have to take a less direct path to get there but with patience and perseverance, it CAN happen.
Once you get your first “real” job after graduation, people tend to care less about where your degree came from and more about your job performance.
Daughter #1 graduated from a T10 business school. Eight years later, Daughter #2 is graduating from a T50 business school. Both were recruited through the same program, had an internship at the same company and received full time offers from that company. D#1 spent a stressful 2 years trying to get classes, recommendations and EC’s to boost her sophomore year application to a very competitive business school. D#2 was a direct admit, has had no problems getting classes and has time to take on a double major. Completely different experiences with very similar outcomes.
Go to the career office early freshman year to learn what they offer, how they recommend exploring/interning, etc. This starts early and understanding the lay of the land as well as how your school can and can’t support you will help.
Four years flies by AND it’s a long time! Friendships and interests evolve, so take advantage of it all AND don’t despair if you’re not loving your sutuation - it can almost always be changed. My kid found most opportunities open to him over the 4 years. A few club sports, a capella groups, etc were selective, but overall, if you wanted to do something, there was a way.
Take a semester or year abroad. It’s a great re-set. New place, new friends, another chance to practice being in a new situation. You can come back with fresh eyes on your own school and situation.
I do understand how it can be difficult and stressful for students as they navigate the whole process of joining clubs. These can be important things to find out during the college research and visit phase.
I see these as different from a ‘traditional’ club. People should expect club sports to be competitive as well as theater productions…as well as music groups from quartets to orchestra to a capella groups.) At some schools non-theater or non-music majors can’t even be in these productions/groups…all things to ask during visits.
As for the business/pre-professional clubs, at many schools they have become very competitive with multiple rounds of interviews, I don’t think that’s great, but it’s also served to incentivize students to create new clubs. Competition is good. At most highly selective schools there are ample club budgets, so can be ‘easy’ to start a new club with some funding. I’m not sure Greek rush is a great analogy to low club acceptance rates…a majority of those participating in Greek rush receive bids at every school I know of.
One of my kids at a NESCAC had fairly easy access to clubs. She was actually involved in starting a pre-professional investing club and they were selective in choosing additional members. She was never able to get piano lessons during the semester though…only a few slots (with the actual profs) opened up each semester and was never able to ‘win’ a spot.
Other kid transferred from a selective LAC to university, and he came upon clubs that didn’t take transfers (not exactly stated that way, but fundamentally the practice.) Additionally, at this school, unless you played a sport a sport competitively in HS it’s nearly impossible to make the club teams. Just to talk about it w/ two examples that I know…Duke club women’s soccer and UDelaware men’s baseball club teams are better than not only many D3 teams, they are better than some D1 teams. That’s one reason why intramurals exists.
Fun fact, Georgetown’s Jack Crew is among the most competitive clubs there (the group that takes care of Jack the Bulldog mascot.)
This. Schools really aren’t interchangeable, even in the same ranking brackets. One of my d’s possible reach school was uber competitive for everything from class grades to clubs to doing grunt jobs in a lab just to get a foot in the door for research. They also restricted when students could join the clubs so no freshmen in academic clubs. A peer school said the polar opposite - more research positions than they had students to fill, anyone could join a club (although they were clear that they would be learning the ropes at first), and overall a more collaborative vibe.
And this! Send your new freshman off to college with an interview suit and have them go to the career center straight away to get a resume together, the 30 second elevator pitch and interviewing tips. Take advantage of every career fair from day one, even if it’s just to practice.
I’ll also add to not overload first semester with too many clubs and activities. So many kids think that they can replicate their HS ECs in college and sign up for way too much stuff. Pick one club or activity but focus on acclimating to the academic workload. Clubs will still be there second semester.
And lastly, college is not a solo sport. Be willing to ask for help, go to office hours, review sessions, form a study group, etc… from day one. It’s crucial to getting through with good grades.
35+ years hiring for corporate America and I don’t recall a single instance where ANY employer (including two which regularly appear on the “most desired” and “most selective” lists) pounded the table and said “we need to hire/interview this kid because she’s in a competitive business club”. Not once.
These clubs have created their own aura. Selective to get into the club MUST mean that Citadel and Jane Street are clamoring to interview the kids who made it into the club. No. Limited number of spots in the club MUST mean that the Bain interview list is comprised of the kids who “made it” by getting into the club. No.
The key selling points of these clubs used to be that they would teach you the “secrets” of mastering the case interview for BCG, the “secrets” of acing a behavioral interview at McKinsey, the “secret sauce” needed for getting past the first screen at DE Shaw.
Well, the secrets are now online for anyone who knows how to Google. And the secret sauce for many of these employers is just to be the best Math major, the best Philosophy major, the most creative problem-solver in your U’s physics department. Employers know that they can teach a smart and curious college grad how to do the “stuff” that these business clubs teach (and very quickly and efficiently).
And the “investment portfolio” stuff? Write a note to the head of the University endowment committee (his or her name is on the U’s website and/or the 990 filing) and volunteer. Kid will learn more about actual risk management, portfolio theory, asset allocation, etc. working with a professionally managed endowment vs. a small “for educational purposes” pool of money.
I agree with all of that. But, what OP’s kid is experiencing is real.
@catcherinthetoast Do you have insights to this? For example, from IU, would your firm only interview IU students who participated in the IB workshop or is that not so important?
Great idea. Quite a few schools have (typically) selective clubs that are already doing this, some even get a small $ portfolio to manage on their own.
This is true not only for internships, but even for certain career opportunities down the road, even after you have many years established in your profession.
On this board, I often see people say things like “Where you get your undergrad degree only matters for your first job” and “No one will care about your SAT score once you are accepted to college.” For certain (very lucrative) career paths, people will strongly consider your undergraduate institution and standardized test scores, even with 5, 10, 15 years of experience.
I know you have extensive experience in corporate recruiting, so take this as just one anecdote with a different experience.
My D was accepted into a highly selective club in college. When the most choosy employers came to campus to recruit (this was pre-Covid), they held a fully open event for a few hours where hundreds of students showed up, and a separate event for the club (with good food) with only a few dozen club members, allowing time for each club member to interact with the recruiters. She was told during multiple interviews that she was interviewed in part because she was in one of the “known clubs” nationwide. And when the job offers came, the majority went to people from the club.
I think there are certain very specific and prestigious academic qualifications that lead to job opportunities because of how rare they are. If you have a 4.0 in Symbolic Systems from Stanford then you are likely to receive job offers just because people see that on your resume, even decades later in your career. It’s a similar situation for Rhodes scholars or Fields Medal winners.