<p>Hi. I posted this in the College Admissions forum but got no response so I thought maybe it was better if I posted it here, since I would like to hear from other parents…</p>
<p>Several mothers and I have been discussing the ‘unfairness’ of the IB program. Students apply to colleges based on their ‘predicted’ grades (grades that the teachers think the students will get on their IB exams) and are accepted (or rejected) based on these grades. US college acceptances are received in the spring, and the students need to let the schools know by May 1st, whether they will be attending the school. The IB exam results don’t come out until July (the exams are generally taken in May) and by then, students have already been accepted and have a place in the university EVEN IF THEY FAILED the IB exam. Is this really the case in all US universities?</p>
<p>Well, it’s a little more complicated than that. The students also submit their transcripts and tests scores (either ACT or SAT). The may be accepted without the IB test results, but university credits are not awarded until the exam results are received.</p>
<p>In the international schools I was involved with, students got regular grades (based on the usual stuff - exams, test, homework, presentations, etc) that appeared on the school transcript and were completely separate from the IB grades given by the IBO. So, college admissions was based on the regular grades and, as Mom2M said, IB scores were used for granting college credit. From what I understand - the same goes for IB schools in the US.</p>
<p>But admissions are always predicated the students actually passing the required courses. So, if a student fails a critical course (based on the final transcript), the university has the option of rescinding the admission.</p>
<p>The thing about IB within the US is that more than being admitted based on predicted scores, students are admitted based on what colleges know is the rigor of the courses taken. It’s easier to know that an IB course is an IB course than is the case with AP.</p>
<p>^^ The IB organization should really consider launching a new Kool Aid brand. It would be a megahit. </p>
<p>There is nothing magical about the curriculum, and the instruction is just as diverse as it is with the extensive AP programs. Both IB and AP programs are offered at dysfunctional and low performing schools. In Texas, for instance, it is mostly attractive to students who want to play the “boost my GPA and ranking game” to secure a direct admission to the flagship UT and TAMU. The final grades are a mere afterthought. The entire success of the IB program in Texas can be traced to the GPA boosting crutch.</p>
<p>By the way, CC has launched a new forum dedicated to the IB. You might find the venue more positive than here, as I doubt that the critical voices are haunting those grounds.</p>
<p>I didn’t say it was magical Xiggi. I said it was known. I come from an area in which some schools have a full compliment of AP courses that no student has ever (EVER) actually passed. Some colleges like to know what they are getting. How they weight it is another matter. Some of my D’s colleges took her IB log-in information and viewed it directly. (I am also not in Texas.)</p>
<p>I know you did not. I was not specifically addressing your post. My use of the caret was unfortunate.</p>
<p>And I know you are not from Texas. I used Texas as an example --in addition to being a State that has been fertile grounds for the IB(o) sales folks. It might be different in other states (it should be) but I do not think that there is any other program that can rival the false publicity that has come with the IB in Texas.</p>
<p>And, fwiw, I happen to think that college adcoms are still eminently more familiar with the contents of the AP program than they are with the IB. I also believe that adcoms are mostly measuring the comparative strength of the schedules chosen by the students as opposed to have an opinion on the inherent strengths of the program.</p>
<p>U.S. IB students who apply to U.S. universities are admitted primarily on the basis of criteria other than predicted IB scores – SAT scores, GPA, rigor of curriculum (IB is a plus here, but taking a lot of AP courses or other advanced courses would also be a plus), recommendations, ECs, and essays.</p>
<p>In fact, predicted IB scores may not matter at all. I don’t know if the colleges even see them.</p>
<p>My daughter graduated from a U.S. IB diploma program and went to a U.S. college that is generally considered to be in the top 20. To the best of her knowledge, the college never asked for her predicted scores. She certainly didn’t submit them herself. *In fact, she never knew what her predicted scores were. * To the best of her knowledge and mine, all the college found out from her high school was that she was still considered an IB diploma candidate at the time when she applied (meaning that she had not done anything – like failing to turn in an internal or external assessment – that would have made her ineligible).</p>
<p>After she was admitted, she was never required to submit her IB scores to the college. She could have chosen to submit them, but since they would not have gotten her any additional credits or advanced placement beyond what she had already gotten through AP scores, she did not bother. *Her college never even knew whether she got the IB diploma. *</p>
<p>Please note that there are many top high schools now offering IB. I understand that some low performing schools offer IB as a draw, but that is NOT universal. It is not the case in our state (Texas). </p>
<p>Colleges recieved by D’s AP scores and the scores she had received from testing done Junior year. She has now submitted her final scores.</p>
<p>Well, what is surely not universal is that top high schools are offering the IB program. Many top high schools have stayed on the sidelines, or actually abandoned after trying it. Feel free to check how many of the top boarding schools in the country do offer it. </p>
<p>Since you mentioned Texas as “our state” we actually can compare notes. I know the scene in the DFW metroplex better than Houston’s or Austin’s. In DFW, I am not sure any of the top high schools actually are offering it, unless it is a recent change. Of course, what constitutes a top high school might be subjective. But is the IB diploma part of the program at St Mark’s, Hockaday, Greenhill, ESD, Cistercian among the privates and Highland Park among the public schools? Is it part of the public schools that top the (mostly questionable) national Newsweek high school list? I am afraid the answer is “nope!”</p>
<p>You might find Dallas International, Westwood, or Woodrow Wilson, and a couple more in the suburbs like Plano High or Coppell. In other words … I rest my case. </p>
<p>In another city, namely El Paso, the most recognized public high school does offer the IB program, but it is hardly the best high school in the city. Accordingly, you have the highest ranked public high school (Coronado) and one of the worst (El Dorado) … draw your own conclusion from that! </p>
<p>It is possible that the situation is different in your city. I know Awty to have a strong reputation in Houston, but where are the likes of St. Johns. </p>
<p>If that helps, here’s the list of IB Diploma school in Texas. While there are more than a few school listed, I do not think that there “many” top high schools offer the IB program. But others might have a different opinion. </p>
<p>Houston has Awty and British school which are private, Lamar, a public with IB only and Bellaire with a small contingent of IB among a larger AP contingent and a few in the suburbs.</p>
<p>However, I don’t know a single student who got admitted based on their IB or AP predicted scores within the US. I suspect colleges accept the predicted scores from other countries as an indicator if the schools are feeder schools and have been accurate in the past.</p>
<p>’‘Her college never even knew whether she got the IB diploma.’’</p>
<p>This is what our discussion was about. Students can actually goof off and fail the IB exams once they have been accepted to a school, because the colleges don’t ask for the IB scores! The IB exams cover two years worth of material so it takes quite a bit of time and effort to study for them, and students who had acceptances to US universities did not have to put in as much effort since they already knew they would be going to college, even if they did not get the IB diploma. Students who have applied to UK universities, on the other hand, received conditional acceptances…meaning they needed to get a certain number of points in order to get accepted unconditionally to the school. Thus, the discussion about the ‘unfairness’.</p>
<p>In my kids’ IB program in the US (the same one Marian is talking about), the kids still had to get their final grades from the school itself to avoid having their college admissions rescinded–and they had final exams separate from the IB exams. College admission is still conditional–but it’s conditional on regular high school grades, not IB exam scores. Plus, they wanted to get the IB diploma, and just about all of them do.</p>
<p>I recognize that this is different from what European universities do, but I don’t think it’s really unfair. My daughter thought it was “unfair” that she had to take school-based final exams AND IB exams. It didn’t bother me, though.</p>
<p>momalwys - UK universities are based on a whole different admissions system and it isn’t really fair to compare them. UK schools have always relied on some sort of test scores (A levels) for admissions purposes. </p>
<p>While final IB scores are not required for admission to US schools, that doesn’t mean the time spent in the classes is worthless. The writing and critical thinking skills developed through the program are excellent preparation for college. And tho the IB grades are not used for admission, they are critical for getting college credit.</p>
<p>The Village School in Houston is also doing the IB, but (I believe) is just beginning a high school cohort. </p>
<p>There are many private school in the US that do IB because they have a heavy international population and the students NEED the IB diploma to be admitted to universities abroad.</p>
<p>Xiggi - you are correct. To think these elite private schools have kids admitted to elite colleges without their IB diplomas is mindboggling. :p</p>
<p>Hunt - Your school sounds a bit mean. My kid’s school gives waivers (I guess the school district policy) if they take the AP or IB exam in that subject as long as they did not miss more than 5 days of school in second semester. Unfortunately, she decided to visit several colleges where she was admitted and exceeded this quota. Some teachers still waived it but she did take a couple of school finals.</p>
<p>The original quote was from me, and I don’t think the situation was unfair at all.</p>
<p>My daughter attended a U.S. high school. She competed for admission to U.S. colleges on the same basis as other applicants from the United States. If her IB scores had been considered as a major criterion for admission, that could have put her at a disadvantage compared to her fellow applicants. Why should she have faced the risk of being penalized for choosing IB?</p>
<p>My daughter could have done some serious goofing off if she chose to. She was admitted to college in December, through binding Early Decision. At that point, she could have chosen to make no further effort toward earning the IB diploma and just focused on keeping her grades high enough so that her admission would not be rescinded. She did not have to finish her CAS hours, turn in any EAs, or even show up for the IB exams. In fact, of course, she did not do this. She took all the exams, finished the other diploma requirements, and earned a respectable score. Her classmates didn’t goof off significantly, either. In her year, everyone in her IB class got the IB diploma, and their scores on one exam – HL History – were the highest of any IB school in the world.</p>
<p>What’s unfair, in my mind, is that IB students in the UK and some other countries get to focus all of their effort on one thing – maximizing their IB scores. U.S. IB students do not have this privilege. They have to divide their focus between being good U.S.-style applicants (with high SAT/ACT scores, good ECs, etc.) and being good IB students. This is a huge source of pressure.</p>
<p>Marian, coincidentally I just got an e-mail indicating that our high school will send the IB scores to colleges–I don’t ever remember seeing this for my son. Who knew?</p>