IB Native American Athlete's chances to play D3 or Ivy? S22

Ok, so we are now wondering if we should just defer or drop the sport and go? DS22 is a very bright kid who is now being trained with a former Padres player to get his D40 and D60 times up. He’s taking IB Physics HL 5, IB English HL 6, IB History HL 5, IB French 6, IB Chem SL 6 IB Math SL 6 (Interim grades for Junior year) plays the Euphonium for last 6 years Concert band. Will be taking SAT and SAT ll this spring (fingers crossed they don’t get cancelled) Have to travel 4 hours to another city to take.
He plays 3B and LF and is a RHP (FB 84) He’s 6 feet, 175 lbs.
Wondering if he should go Juco and then transfer? Afraid he will be bored academically at Juco. Plays football too, received best Lineman a couple of years running? Don’t know much about LACs, low income but have strategized to make the most of things. Covid sucks.

Not sure what you are asking. Is your son graduating from HS in 2022 (HS junior this year). Is the goal to attend an academic D3 or an Ivy or play baseball? Has any school shown interest to date – is he on someone’s radar screen? What is his pitching velocity? Batted ball exit speed? GPA? The threads history is cut off. Are you the OP?

Most baseball players who go Juco are actually shooting for a D1 transfer or feel as if they are draftable. Not sure Juco to high academic is a good path.

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Sorry for not being clear: Son is graduating in 22 with the goal of playing collegiate baseball with strong academic programs offered. He’s done a few recruiting gigs earlier and talked to a couple of coaches, D3, NAIA. Pitching Velo: FB84 consistent, highest 87. Curve: 76, I can’t remember what his slider is, Exit velo is mediocre in mid 80’s, hoping improved wt training will improve numbers by next year. Yes I am the OP. Limited play this past year, but cages are now open for filming, so hope to get those up on his dashboard soon.
I read the article Niche it’s a Mad Mad World…and saw myself in it and wondered if we are shooting to high? He is looking to apply to Law school after undergrad. Current Unweighted GPA is 3.87, Wt is 4.67. Doesn’t have a whole lot of ECs because Sports take up most of his time outside of his studies.
I got discouraged after reading here that the class of 22’s may be impacted for recruiting and thought I should lower my sights, But I agree, JUCO was really never in our plans.

Class of 2022 baseball will definitely be impacted, tough to tell though at which teams and which students will take their 5th year (which is not allowed at the Ivys).

Has he been reaching out to coaches? He should be casting a wide net, filling out recruiting questionnaires and emailing coaches now, and definitely stay in contact with the ones that have already showed interest.

There is no reason for him to practice running the 40 for baseball. Only the 60.

Do you expect his HS to play the baseball season this spring? Will he be on a club team this summer?

What is your college budget? Do you expect to receive need based financial aid?

Is he going to try for Dartmouth’s program for NA on campus visits? Hopefully travel will open up in time.

As far as baseball stats are concerned, sitting at 84 might get him an Ivy look if he has other stuff and good movement with potential for higher velocity. 6’ helps that story. Sitting at 84 will make him attractive for D3’s. Will need to pick up exit velocity unless he has record of hitting at a high average and is fast. I think I gave you this link in the past. It has good reference points. Evaluation Reference Information

Recruiting for baseball (other than for phenoms) gets into high gear the summer before senior year because so many kids are just beginning to fill out physically. I suggested Headfirst upthread. It looks like they are enrolling for this summer. Stanford is also a great camp for academic kids, and since Headfirst Woodland (Sacramento) is usually right before Stanford, most coaches work both camps and you can get extended looks. At 84, your son will get plenty of attention. That was where my son was sitting. He did hit well though. He got about a dozen D3 coaches inviting him for campus visits right after the camps – visited 5 and had 6 offers. Ivies liked him, but not enough. Most told him he could walk on if he got in, but no offers.

The Ivies and D3’s cannot offer athletic scholarships, but I seem to remember that your income was low enough that the FA packages from these schools would in fact be superior to an athletic scholarship.

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We will be spending the next several months filling out those questionnaires, The HS team will not be playing but his Travel team have a tentative schedule for Spring and Summer now that HS in region are cancelling in droves. We will definitely be expecting need-based financial aid income is less than 65K, we have some savings but at most we can do is about 15K/year with NA orgs helping. Was hoping to do PSAT but it got cancelled so no merit scholarships either. Thank you for the advice!

After he fills out the recruiting questionnaire he should send an intro email to the entire coaching staff (unless he knows which one is in charge of recruiting).

He should also have a twitter account with a highlight video pinned at the top. Follow coaches and programs, many coaches are active on twitter and communicate with prospects via DMs.

IMO Headfirst and Showball camps were clusters this past summer…so if you are going to spend that kind of money, grill them on what they will be doing differently this summer. They each cost around $1K plus travel costs.

Does he have a Tribal Number?

Is he on a good summer team, meaning one that draws college coaches?

You have helped us think in the past, thank you for that. I have looked at the Stanford HeadFirst organization but not the sacremento one, I will look that up! FA packages at D3’s Ivies are why we are shooting for them. Ethnically, he is hooked, and his grades have shaped up nicely and his coach is happy with his hitting and he is diligently working the wts and such. D60 is 7.8, which needs improvement. I am just worried that the opportunities we’ve been working towards with be shunted because of the Covid-related issues. Because we have been so focused on athletics, we haven’t paid a whole lot of attention to ECs. I heard many were discussing whether to drop the sport and go to college rather than play college at a lowered tiered school. DS wants to play really badly but not at the expense of a good education that prepares him to attend law school after undergrad.

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Getting an athletic recruiting slot at an academically selective college gives you almost guaranteed admission where for even the most academically qualified student, the outcome is uncertain.

The top academic D3’s also have very generous FA. I forgot if you were Canadian, which may complicate FA for some schools. For a couple of Ivies, household income at below $65k = 0 EFC. See Yale Affordability | Financial Aid.

As far as balancing school with sports, it is much easier to balance at a D3. A high GPA is critical to get into a good law school. My D started all 4 years at her LAC and majored in a STEM field. She definitely learned how to time manage. My son looked at walking on at his Ivy, but the time commitment looked like it would be too much for him. He opted to play club baseball to continue his sport.

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Looking at the Headfirst schedule, there is a camp 6/23-24. Baseball Showcases | Headfirst Honor Roll Camps Looking at Stanford, there is a camp tentatively scheduled 6/26-29 http://www.stanfordbaseballcamp.com/About%20Us. Neither of these camps are cheap. Add transportation and housing, it will add up, but this is the best way to get the most thorough looks by the greatest number of coaches as far as academic schools are concerned. Relying on coaches to catch travel ball games is not realistic for the avg good player.

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Yes We live in Canada but are US citizens, so he does qualify for some scholarships. We are hoping the boarder will open up for us to go to one of these camps this year. If he can get a decent scholarship at D3 or even Dartmouth, (NA focus there, would like to apply for their fly-in program if it opens up!) He will be writing his SATs this spring, he is sitting at around 1410 right now. With his GPA Wt.4.67 he has a chance at admission at these select schools. Not sure if the border will allow for this ‘essential’ travel or not! Do you know of anyone else with this problem? Because of US citizenship and Jay Treaty, they can’t stop us, can they?

Tribal Number:
Yes, he does have a tribal number and his travel team is really good for the region but doesn’t extend too far out as far as coaches go. We are hoping they continue developing the schedule and it doesn’t get closed down. Next best thing is working with his coaches to help keep him sharp while this lockdown lasts.
Twitter Account:
Twitter Account is in the making and we just received the showcase video he did a couple of months ago, so we’ll use that. It highlights his speed and agility. How can he grill the coaches? Ask about available spots due to deferrals? How many players are taking a gap year up the chain? Does their school allow for a 5th year? Are they open to that kind of questioning? For a 16 going on 17 year old student, that takes some confidence!
How good is the travel team?

Everything has been so closed the last while, not even sure how it is supposed to look normally. I know several went to UW, State Flagship in the neighboring state, Local colleges and some went the JUCO route. One to an Ivy a few years ago.

Many say they are 'test-‘optional’ but we are doing anyway in case that is the tipping point.

I meant grill the folks running Headstart and Showball…things were not well run last summer. I have not talked with anyone who felt is was worth the $.

But, the questions you ask regarding coaches, yes your S should be asking coaches these questions. Of course initially start building a relationship, but he has to understand their program, how they want to use him (Maybe a PO (pitcher only)), who is ahead of him by position, how many guys does the coach intend to carry on the roster, how many full support slots does the coach have. Etc. It’s ok for a parent to be on calls with him, but he should be doing the talking.

I concur on trying to get a strong test score, it is an advantage in recruiting.

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Did you go last year? Was it because of crowds, ranking logistics, opportunity to speak to coaches? Is there opportunity for parents to ask questions or is it all the player? What was their main complaint? We don’t want to go all the way there and mess up! I like the questions you gave, it helps me get my head around what I should know. Sometimes when you don’t know what you don’t know, it can hurt your child’s chances. Everything is such a balance!

What kind of likely/safety options are under consideration?

University of Minnesota Morris costs about $12.5k for non-tuition costs, and tuition is waived for those eligible for its American Indian Tuition Waiver. It has baseball in NCAA Division III (Upper Midwest Athletic Conference).


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Sounds like your family planned things very well and made some balanced decisions. How difficult was it to cut his sport and do club ball? Was it competitive enough? Any regrets? I am hoping the rigor of the IB diploma program will be enough preparation for to learn to balance school work and play commitments. He’s handled it so far, Full IB and played two sports this fall, (November), He’s keeping up, SATs prep is now making inroads into his time management, so we’ll see how he fares (if it doesn’t get cancelled, it is in a smaller town and there is less risk of cancellation). So glad you are here to answer my questions and calm me down. Trying to help juggle things is crazy!

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The Yale RC told my son (the conversation was at Headfirst, by the way) that their recruiting standard – which would be extremely similar to the other Ivies – for RHP velocity is touching 88 or higher multiple times per inning (lower for LHP). Sounds like your son is not too far from that – if I were him I’d aim to be there this summer. OTOH, 6’ is not tall for a RHP. Also, most Ivy recruits have other D1 offers, in some cases from high-level programs. So if the recruiting interest is from D3s . . . let’s just say the title “D3 or Ivy” in my opinion is not the right way to look at it. It’s more like “recruitable D3” or “recruitable D1” – if grades/test scores are there, then the former kid can go NESCAC or CMS or Pomona-Pitzer, and the latter kid can go Ivy.

One more thing on velocity – it was one thing for my son when he touched a certain number for his high school and quite another when he touched the very same number at a Perfect Game event. The first one meant nothing, recruiting-wise, and the second one meant quite a lot. In other words, verifiable velo is tremendously important. That can be in front of coaches at Headfirst, from a PBR or PG showcase, at a college camp, etc.

Good luck!

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Also, if he is going to be a pitcher in college, his 60 doesn’t really matter.


To be honest, we hadn’t considered this school, but this sounds like they have embedded NA recruitment in their tuition policies. Thank you. We were looking at University of Maine because we heard about their waivers for Native Americans as a Safety option. We just received our SAT Waiver and thought about doing the Questbridge route but even though our son is a US citizen, he is schooled in Canada, so we didn’t qualify for the program. Applying is a lot of money too!

S liked baseball but it was not his passion so he made a decision he wanted to focus on school. If he wanted to play, he would have gone with one of the D3’s where he would have had a legit shot at starting 3 or 4 years. Club ball was perfect for him. He started, played his HS positions and batted at the top of the order. If he had walked on, he would have been on the bench. So no regrets.

I can imagine the various camps and showcases being a mess last summer. We had good experiences in terms of coach contact and exposure at Headfirst and Stanford. We did both summer sophomore and summer junior years.