I am not a huge fan of this policy. That said, I am also not a fan of schools using online classes as a political weapon. The science is pretty clear, people under 25 are very low risk. According to Dr Scott Atlas, formerly of Stanford, the mortality for anyone under 65 years old is 0.4%. Many public schools (not university) in Europe are back to normal operations with no one wearing a mask (Gasp!).
The “optics” argument goes both ways. Universities have been prone to bend to many of the current SJW movements. Just look at how many speakers are put through intense scrutiny before they are allowed to speak on a campus, if they are allowed to at all. The “cancel culture” has been relatively successful at limiting open discussion on campus. These same University Administrations could reasonably be assumed to be similarly risk averse when it comes to COVID. They want to avoid controversy without impacting revenue. Online is the current answer.
So, let’s look at a brief current example - football. Most DIV 1 teams have returned to campus to start conditioning practices. Have there been flare-ups? Yes. Clemson probably had the most significant with 37 players and staff testing positive. How many went to the Hospital? As of June 27th, the latest article I can find, ZERO. This illustrates, does not “prove”, my point that for the college demographic, COVID is not lethal. I am sure many have counter examples of young people being severely impacted by COVID. I agree it can be scary. I feel that the vast majority that may get the virus will require no more treatment than rest and liquids.
Why do we conflate “positive” test results with doom & gloom? That is for each of us to answer on our own. I feel that Universities are being overly cautious for a variety of motives. I have no concerns about my two sons returning to school next month. I wish both schools were returning to full F2F class schedules, but we will deal with the hand we are dealt.
It seems highly unlikely that even a well connected kid will risk attending college with the ICE measure in place. Not to even mention, for many there are no/limited flights home.
How many students are likely to have already paid for the semester?
Princeton announced they would join the lawsuit, and likely ensure University operations will occur so that it’s students are not affected. It had already invited back all grad students anyway.
Death is not the only possible bad outcome of covid. The little tiny strokes from blood clots and the permanent lung scarring are scary outcomes. These are happening even in people whose disease is not serious enough for hospitalization.
It might have something to do with the 134,364 deaths in the U.S. and the 549,053 deaths world wide and climbing, not to mention the number of people experiencing life altering long term side effects.
Cornell joined the amicus brief in support of the lawsuit even though they don’t expect it to impact their students because they’ll be returning to campus:
Shouldn’t just all schools join this as a statement? If in court then it will take time to get a ruling, wouldn’t it? That would make this sorta null? Lawyers (you know who you are), please explain.
It is possible that a federal court would issue a temporary injunction against enforcement of the rule by ICE if it found there were reasonable grounds to do so, but that would be immediately appealed. Although I sympathize with the college position, it is not a strong legal argument, as they know. Other schools may not have standing to join the suit if it does not affect their students, but they could file a supportive amicus brief agreeing with the Harvard position, which is nice but not worth much. The quickest solution would be for Harvard and MIT to enter into a transfer agreement with a f2f university to accept credits for international students here in the US currently enrolled at those 2 schools.
For me strange that so much people discussing this decision in connection with covid. All together international students are probably 0,01%, or near that, part of total USA population. So even if absolutely all them will be forced to go home, it can make only pro rate (and that’s mean absolutely miserable) influence for covid pandemic in USA.
As for me and reasons, and targets of this decision haven’t any relation to covid. Covid just was found as excuse to do that.
I think the amicus briefs from schools that are having F2F classes will hurt more than help. Harvard and MIT will be arguing it is impossible to safely hold classes but yet those schools ARE doing the impossible, holding in person or hybrid classes.
Even if schools are open for F2F classes, it may be impossible for students to get back if they left the US or for first time students to get their visas processed. A lot of embassies and consulates are closed or only processing emergency visas. Students may think their situation constitutes an emergency, but the govt doesn’t. There are people waiting for adoption visas, H1b visas, marriage visas, family visas who all want to get to the US too. Of the ~1M international students in the US, more than half are from China and India. I think there will be one big logjam.
twoin, your highlight of the ensuing cluster is spot on. Foreign students will required to leave if their school only offer online classes but then will be hamstrung from other immigration restrictions in the US and abroad.
Again, this new reg affecting international students along with the current bevy immigration restrictions makes it very clear that they are not welcomed, wanted, or desired in the US.
Trust me, smart, ambitious, and talented kids, no matter where they are from in the world, will have no problem finding a welcoming place to attend college as an alternative to the US. US schools always attracted the best and brightest international college students. Again, many countries will more than happy to fill the void left by the US.
The long term, negative effects will be felt in the next decade or so. By that time, it will be too late to un-ring the bell.
Not a new regulation. Not even a new way of interpreting the the regs. International students are not allowed to take classes online, and that is to prevent fraud by signing up for an online program just to get a visa into the US. It is a policy that has always been enforced too. If internationals students violated the terms of their visas by dropping out, by not going to in person classes, by working more hours than allowed, by flunking out, those visas are cancelled.
Twoin, the SEVP announced modifications earlier this past week relating to the applicable exemptions affecting international students. As you mentioned the initial regs were enacted to prevent immigration fraud through foreign students taking online classes. However, the initial reg did not contemplate schools going online as a result of covid and not being able to offer in-person classes at all. Foreign and all other students attending Harvard cannot attend any classes other than online classes (not by their own volition but as a result of a global pandemic), thereby making foreign students subject to deportation. I highly doubt that the intent of the SEVP in its initial regs governing foreign students taking online classes took into account a global pandemic that has required institutions to literally shut down.
Lawsuit or not, I don’t have a problem with this regulation…a lot of these elite schools have gotten fat off international students…supporting the importation of foreign students means a lot of American kids get denied acceptance to these schools as a foreigner will be taking their place…I prefer to take care of our own…and don’t forget, American kids are being denied placement in foreign schools as well due to COVID… additionally, there’s a major problem with some of the Chinese students with federal agencies warning of spying and technology theft. Read this.
Wow hotrin. I suppose we can close all of the borders in all countries and only allow for American students in American universities.
That generalizing mindset would seem to solve a lot of the world’s problems. Maybe there will fewer Chinese spies lurking around at the student union cafeterias.
the whole thing is that colleges are using the international student’s full pay tuition to help American students. Your kid would be hurting too if the colleges didn’t receive that money anymore.
Nomood is spot on. Full pay international kids allow for American students to receive more financial aid and merit. Full pay helps all students and the school.
Also, this ICE modification is being used to pressure the schools to open up for in-person classes this fall. Opening schools for in-person classes is the objective of this new ICE modification (not some noble prevention of immigration fraud). Same for the CDC announcing its initial plans on how to open lower, middle, and high schools only to be met with backlash from our administration. Coincidentally, the CDC will be announcing modified plans tomorrow in response to such backlash.