<p>There’s been little mention of EC’s in this thread outside of student council. Maybe it’s my own ignorance but that one thing doesn’t sound like much time. When kids are heavily involved in EC’s they don’t have much time to hang around with kids who aren’t in the same activities, even if they’d like to. If the niece signs up for honors classes and is involved in several EC’s, she simply won’t be around when her undesirable friends are doing undesirable activities. I feel it could have the same effect as transferring to a new school. Is she doing sports? Music group? Drama? Yearbook? Etc. Being super-involved may help her figure out her interests and get her in with the crowd the OP would approve of. If there are manager-type positions associated with student groups that might be a good experience for someone potentially interested in business. As would be a job of course. Is she working this summer? Or?</p>
<p>I was told by a prominent member that I should expand on the context, to provide greater scope of the dynamic:</p>
<ul>
<li>My niece’s biological father is not really in her life and provides no support.</li>
<li>She’s a beautiful and outgoing bi-racial blessing, who didn’t grow up in the most structured environment.</li>
<li>My sister had her quite young, now remarried (neither parent finished college, nor understands much about college prep).</li>
<li>I see a spark and took a serious interest in her schooling about a year ago, which included: access to online grading, school guide, school newsletters (that detail honors students, etc.) fwd to my email, and conversations on the phone to assess pursuits and disposition.</li>
<li>It’s fairly easy to cross reference her friends with the honors lists.</li>
<li>The grade data clearly indicates “busy work” is allowed to grossly inflate her final grades, to the point that poor final exam grades don’t have much impact on overall. In short, it’s a farce, which will be exposed on the ACT/SAT.</li>
<li>Little change year over year in grades or her tendencies.</li>
<li>I’m dedicated to helping her reach her potential, I am 100% convinced she’s nowhere near her potential. I’m also sure that without my involvement, she’ll be headed to a community college in three years.</li>
<li>IU (Kelley) is again all her, but it is my alma mater and close to her home, so she has visited a few times. NYU is again, all her, but it is close to my apartment, so she’s had exposure to its campus as well.</li>
<li>I intend to be very generous when it comes to college expenses, but not if I don’t see drastic improvement in character and work ethic. I hope she puts in herself in a place to take advantage of my generosity.</li>
<li>I truly wish I could have faith in her WAKING UP at the current school but we were convinced it would happen this past year and it did not. How does a girl do a 180 in the same place?</li>
</ul>
<p>Thank you all.</p>
<p>For those who asked about sports, the OP suggested that her niece played soccer, despite the fact that her “cool” friends made fun of it.</p>
<p>My kids’ EC took up 15-20 hours of their time each week. It left them with very little time with nothing to do. It also taught them time management.</p>
<p>That’s right, which means that the niece has a mind of her own. </p>
<p>Auntjulia, I spent a fortune sending my kids to private schools, after finding the public ones lacking for them. One thing one must understand when making this choice, is that it does not necessarily mean the student will be going to a better college. There are kids at any number of excellent private schools, the big name preps even, who end up going to non selective colleges. One only needs to peruse the college lists for those schools to see exactly what I mean. So do look at where the kids are going to college, if you can get a look at such lists and see where the kids at the private schools you are considering are sending their kids. Then get a look at the list from your niece’s current public high school. </p>
<p>Also, a very important factor in all of this is how interested you niece is in making this switch. If she’s perfectly happy at her high school, has lots of friends and is doing very well there, she may find herself socially unhappy initially at the new school, and a bit at loss as to what activities to seek. She is unlikely to become a “big wig” in an activity as a transfer, at least not right away. Unless she is gung ho on all of this, the discouragement she may feel in that transition can send her running right back to her her friends, her crowd at the old high school. It’s not like everyone going away to college or doing different things when one transfers from one high school to another. Especially with tweets, texts, Facebook and other social media, one can get a minute by minute transcript on what one is missing by not being at the old school with the old crowd. With teenagers, this is a very important thing. I switched high schools for one of mine through necessity–we moved out of state, and he really never got over that. Neither did my friend’s kids who ended up in the same situation. The transition is much better tolerated or maybe only tolerated when the student really is driving the switch. Otherwise your largesse may go to nothing with your niece deciding to go back to her old school I say this, having seen this happen. I know several situations where some very talented, bright young kids from not so great schools did get this opportunity and decided they wanted back to the home school. Not for GPA reasons, but for social reasons. </p>
<p>However, I know how you feel. My DH’s cousin who is also is godson, has two kids that went to a school district that just was not a very good one It’s really very difficult to come to that conclusion when your read the propaganda that the school releases. Nice new shiny school, and really the top kids can do just fine there. It’s just that a lot of the kids go to a non four year colleges, and in truth end up not even doing a year there, and there is a drop out problem as well as other issues that are not big deals in college prep schools DH and I wanted to pay for the kids to go to a local Catholic school that really was small, run down, required parental involvement and did not have a lot of the resources of the local elementary school. The big difference was it went on through 8th grade and most all of the kids then went on to the local Catholic school that is college prep. Nearly 100% of the kids graduating from that local Catholic school went on to a 4 year college. Now mind you, most of them did NOT end up going to top schools or even state flagships. But they did not tend to drop out of high school–the peer pressure, herd mentality was to go on to a 4 year college. Not so the public high school, and sadly, the cousins did end up in the bottom 25%, hanging around those kids who were not college bound, and ended up not even finishing high school. I truly believe that these kids would have finished high school and possibly gone on to college, though chances of completing college, not that high, had they gone the private Catholic route.</p>
<p>So,my advice is to put the offer on the table if you see a big difference in the two schools, the one your niece is attending, and the one you think will be an improvement. Watch your niece carefully when you lay out the option and make sure she isn’t just going through motions because she feels she has to do so. Make sure she has some easy outs from agreeing with your idea. If she really wants do this, and I do believe that in order to make a good difference in outcome, she has to really want to do this, then give it a go. Then let things happen without making it personally. A gift once given is no longer yours, and it would be sad indeed if this becomes a wedge between your niece and you.</p>
<p>Thanks for the additional context Aunt Julia. I still feel the same way - I think it is extremely generous of you to contemplate underwriting your niece. I just think you need to evaluate whether the two target colleges are ones she could be accepted to if she stays where she is. Not to say the list won’t be expanded but these could be your basis upon which to make a decision. Both appear to be acceptable to you and your niece. A 3.8 is nothing to sneeze at and if she can hold that steady she should be fine. If you are worried about SAT/ACT she certainly has the time to do plenty of prep.</p>
<p>If it were me, I would involve my niece/child in the decision making process. This does not appear to be a situation where she is failing or doing poorly in her current school. I would also take her to tour the new school and give her time to think it over.</p>
<p>I would be very careful of the positioning of these new opportunities. Perhaps what you say here isn’t how you would talk to her, but there’s a difference between the loving aunt who opens up someone’s eyes and supports her widening her horizons, and an aunt who gives off the vibe that what you’re doing isn’t good enough, your friends aren’t good enough, your effort isn’t good enough, and you need to be rescued.</p>
<p>Surely as a consultant, AuntJulia, you know the importance of coaching. I don’t hear a lot of coaching and support in your tone. I hear a lot of fear, and exasperation, and a “she’s a fool if she doesn’t do it / see things my way.” All of which will backfire on you.</p>
<p>Your dreams for her aren’t her dreams. This feels very ego-driven – you think she should be a certain way, and you’re kind of annoyed at sister for not fostering it. I would tread very carefully here – you cannot be in a position where she feels that you look down on her mother / parents for how they’ve raised her.</p>
<p>Why is your ego so invested in her being an academic star? And hey, I get that part of it - my ego was vested in my kids, too, but I wouldn’t always say that that was healthy. </p>
<p>@Pizzagirl “ego driven”? Interesting.</p>
<p>I don’t seem to understand the vitriol toward a blood relative having an interest in the well-being of a young family member. I have 9 nieces and nephews and if I was in a position to help them and I saw them failing, I would hope I had the charity to reach out rather than simply sit by and watch them fail. This reminds me of the videos where someone is beaten in public, but no one steps in to help. God Bless Aunt Julia for at least trying to help.</p>
<p>As the child of parents who did not go to college until after I did, I can completely understand why her parents would have no clue as to the process or how to prepare. They simply do not know what they do not know, so it is tough to help. Even since I was in HS things have changed so much and schools are so competitive that the process must begin early in HS. </p>
<p>The faculty at the current school don’t seem to be doing the child any favors. Grade inflation gives a false sense of accomplishment and the student apparently does not seem to understand that good grades without learning will lead to disaster (either on the SAT/ACT or when faced with the challenge of college).</p>
<p>No one can say how the new school would turn out, but assuming all we see is correct, it is unlikely to be worse.</p>
<p>While I understand that some kids make good decisions when adults sit down and give them options, others need to know they are loved enough for someone to set expectations and make decisions in their best interest even if it hurts. In a perfect world, Aunt Julia and niece and parents would go out to lunch and talk it out and niece gives her a big hug and is excited to take on a brave new world. That may work in some cases, but we have to trust the person closest to the story to have an idea how this would play out. Even facing great opportunities, some kids get scared of change and will lash out (see You Tube video of kid crying about surprise trip to Disney World). </p>
<p>I guess I don’t see a lot of ego in IU or NYU. Good schools, but we are not talking about the ego driven schools like the Ivies, MIT, etc. I also read this to mean those were a couple of possible goals, but the goal was really to get into the best school possible and to prepare the niece (I think of her as Juliet) for the rigors of college.</p>
<p>Stay strong Aunt Julia.</p>
<p>There’s a difference between shooting for something good, and catastrophizing the bad. There are lots of ways to encourage a kid - even a teen - to explore new things and maximize her potential. But it is important to keep some perspective. You might want a particular dream house for any number of legitimate reasons, but among them should not be “because if I get outbid for it, I’ll wind up living in a shack in Detroit.” That kind of thinking is recipe for a lot of heartache, and injects a degree of such intense anxiety into any conversation that inhibits productive dialogue. </p>
<p>I think it’s totally reasonable to believe (and I have seen it with many kids) that kids at this age can have a tipping point where they go one way or the other. I have a kid who played baseball for many years with a whole group of guys who mostly tipped the wrong way . . . even some who seemed like they had promise. A few are at CC and more are just bumming around the neighborhoods and working at Sports Authority or Chipotle. This was from a strong IB school which also offers AP. I see nothing wrong with trying to help the niece tip the right direction. Based on the above clarification, it seems entirely possible that people around her just might not have high expectations of her so she maybe doesn’t reach up to the challenges because people aren’t expecting her to really stretch. </p>
<p>I think it’s an extremely generous offer. I would put it on the table, and let your niece know that more will be expected of her and that her GPA will most likely take a hit early on. If this is something she wants to try, then why not give her the chance? I agree that it’s very hard for a kid to change when they stay in the same place and are surrounded by peers who don’t have a strong work ethic. Could she turn things around in the public school? I think she could if she wanted to. But it sounds like she doesn’t have to take that route – and if she chooses the Catholic HS then hopefully she will work harder there. I guess the most important part is whether she wants to change – the environment can help, but only if she lets it.</p>
<p>Torveaux, right. But it’s OP’s own thread words creating this impression. </p>
<p>That’s what it often comes down to, on CC, since we are what we write. It’s not up to us to fill in the blanks, to assume. We may relate- or we may question and we may point out concerns. We may even get annoyed.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Nailed it. Further, even though her parents can tell she’s underachieving and not developing strong habits, their sense of urgency is diminished because marks don’t seem bad. I see the big picture and I’m highly alarmed.</p>
<p>I truly wish there was a strategy I was confident in to keep her at the current school. Some of you really believe honors history and english, four regular courses, student council and NHS will spark change?</p>
<p>She could take Honors Math, Honors (science) as well…yes I truly think it would spark a change…and as I have said before, I think she is being taught a horrible lesson by not honoring her commitment to the leadership role she was elected to…</p>
<p>Thank you for the additional context. I would suggest researching the new school carefully – find families whose children are there who have some overlapping backgrounds/experiences with your niece. In our experience – and that is why I say it is important to talk to current families – our Catholic diocesan school was socially stratified by class and race/ethnicity. It was not easy for kids who were not long time parishioners, from upper middle class white families, to “belong.” </p>
<p>"There’s a difference between shooting for something good, and catastrophizing the bad. There are lots of ways to encourage a kid - even a teen - to explore new things and maximize her potential. But it is important to keep some perspective. You might want a particular dream house for any number of legitimate reasons, but among them should not be “because if I get outbid for it, I’ll wind up living in a shack in Detroit.” "</p>
<p>That’s exactly it. AuntJulia, your love and concern for your niece is not in question.<br>
But you don’t appear to be coming at it from a perspective of “she’s a great girl, and here are some ways to broaden her horizons.” Your words give the impression that you think it’s all just some big disaster. And it’s not a big disaster at this point. She’s got a good GPA (ok, fine, grade inflation, yada yada), she’s popular and well liked, she has a student leadership position. It’s not as though she’s living in squalor with parents who are beating her, or she’s being bullied, pr she’s not able to add 2+2, or this is some major crisis at this point. </p>
<p>This is not unlike the naive teenagers on here who catastrophize “if I don’t get into Harvard, I’ll be stuck flipping burgers the rest of my life.” Well, that’s not really true, is it? Nor is her current path a disaster. It’s just not what you would like.</p>
<p>I get it, btw - I’m an education snob and I’d do the same for my niece if that were the situation. So I’m not unsympathetic to your desires – just how it comes across as though it’s such a catastrophe otherwise. </p>
<p>@Pizzagirl We can take the public vs. private out of the equation and just discuss preparation, discipline and character:</p>
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</p>
<p>What’s the backup plan for a mature, hyper-competitive student shooting for Harvard? Wash U, Cornell, perhaps a full ride at the state flagship? No Aunt Julia = niece coasting into a low 20s ACT score and right into junior college. And then being a bitter 19 y.o. still living at home because “nobody helped me.”</p>
<p>I’d say there’s a pretty big gap between those two potential outcomes. In one, the student is still equipped to succeed, at a high level I might add. In the other, according to the data, the student has perhaps a 10-20% chance of even graduating from the CC and making it to a 4-year university.</p>
<p>Beck, you’re projecting. </p>