<p>“emilybee, gifted slackers are a frustration for both teachers and parents”</p>
<p>My son is not gifted - just your normal bright kid who if he does the work and studies does pretty well. </p>
<p>I may have missed this in the many pages of posts, but has this been addressed yet—It is almost August. What kind of private school is going to accept her at this late date? Probably not a very good one, and is a mediocre private school going to be better than a decent public one?The highly sought after schools probably had their slots filled several months ago. </p>
<p>I’m all for private schools (kids went private starting in first and second grade), but I wouldn’t spend a lot of money on a school that isn’t particularly good.</p>
<p>emilybee, Not all publics are alike in terms of the attention kids get. My kids went to public schools their whole lives, in a very diverse urban school district. My older kid was a top student, never had to worry about him. Never really had much contact with any teachers except at the parent /teacher conferences.Younger kid was a different story. Problems doing homework, not living up to what testing would expect, occasionally disruptive in class. Teachers would call me or email me and express concern. Any time I myself had an issue and called or emailed, the teacher or guidance counselor was very responsive and supportive of my kid. He started getting it together in his junior year and that carried over to college. His public school teachers and guidance counselor were very helpful and I give them credit for their concern and sticking with him. One of his teachers who he had for two classes (analysis and AP Statistics) would even come to some of his sports events. We were walking along one day and she said , “You know he’s really bright and a nice kid but he’s just lazy.” I should have been offended but I wasn’t . I knew what she meant. But he wasn’t lazy in some things, like sports ,job,etc. I just said. “Well, I guess he just has other fish to fry.” And he did at that time of his life. He was more focused on sports, friends, being a typical teenager. But he got it together when he needed to. Many kids do. </p>
<p>In particular, I’d make sure before making the change that there is an “ethos of concentrated ambition” and not just an atmosphere of privilege and expectation that the world is theirs on a silver platter. Parents may worry about academics, but parents may also just get involved with sports, or want to continue an “old boys” system. It really depends on the school, and the particulars matter because it will effect the outcomes.</p>
<p>OP seems fairly sure that the Catholic school is a much better school with better outcomes and will instill work ethic. If it were me (and it’s not) I’d want to make sure that those assumptions are true. If the point is just to be in daily contact with the wealthy, it may not have the expected outcome. Not that any of this has to do anything with GPA.</p>
<p>I don’t know but in my view there seems to be too much focus on external factors - new school, new friends, new ethos - and not enough focus on the internal factors such as self motivation, focus and most importantly a personal desire to succeed. A student who has the latter will do well just about anywhere. Just not sure that your niece can develop all those things in year or two, especially with the adjustments involved in a new school. </p>
<p>Exactly,Until a kid’s internal motivation to do well in school kicks in, nagging , bribing, even change of scenery, is probably unlikely to work.</p>
<p>Sevmom, I will never really know what might have been if we kept him at his public but it’s common knowledge at this school if your kid is doing OK and isn’t a trouble maker the teachers don’t make much of an effort with kids like that. I think it’s likely that the pattern from middle school would continue where he’d do nothing first half of grading period - then buckle down 2nd 1/2 bring his grade up to acceptable level 85-88ish held. But our home life would have been filled with constant tension and, imo, our relationship with our son would have really suffered. It was already pretty bad by the end of middle school. </p>
<p>We were basically to the point where we were going to throw in the towel and whatever would be would be. And, in our opinion, he definitely would not be where he is or who is as a person if we had kept him in the public school. I don’t know if the light bulb would ever have gone off - but likely if it did it would be very late in the game. He already was not in the honors/AP track and 70’s and 80’s would never get him the needed recommendations. </p>
<p>It was not an easy decision to move him, either. Financially it was a sacrifice and for me, emotionally -as even though my H and I are products of private schools - we are big supporters of public schools. We moved to our town specifically for the school district. </p>
<p>“If the point is just to be in daily contact with the wealthy, it may not have the expected outcome. Not that any of this has to do anything with GPA.”</p>
<p>I went to private school (an Indy) as did my H (CBA) and both those schools were more diverse than the suburbs we lived in. Ditto for our local high school and my son’s prep school. Lots of kids from different SES and many on partial and full scholarship. </p>
<p>emilybee, If your particular public school system was not supportive of your son, then it is great that you were abe to move him and that he has done so well. </p>
<p>I was very involved in my kids prep hs. Not in the classroom, but in so many other ways, on site. Ime, it was an important component of their social adjustment. Not critical, but good. People (teachers, admins, parents) see you, then they connect you and your kids on a level past progress meetings. You get to see your kids interacting (not helicoptering; this engagement is a part of some preps’ culture.) . They get to see you (same principle as going to their sports events.) I’ve seen it be a grandparent, older sister…yes, aunts and uncles. Many preps welcome help- maybe parents council, selling freaking goodies at the play, bringing on some community service, etc. YMMV. </p>
<p>Btw, many, many kids, even at elite BS, are on serious finaid. Their achievements are not predetermined by SES. Our prep was superb at putting all groups together.
…</p>
<p>“Your niece isn’t really “disadvantaged” in the normal sense of the word.”
Is that so? Please explain what motivated you to say this.
Because you haven’t said it, though the question was raised. </p>
<p>@AuntJulia I know that you have been bombarded with questions from all of us and it must seem overwhelming to answer them all. I’m not sure why we are all so invested in this thread (I know I am ) 
but you don’t seem to be answering many of the hard questions posted to you. It would be helpful to us if you would either answer the questions posed or tell us to butt out and mind our own business. It’s frustrating to wait for answers from some very well pointed questions. Again, I know it would be hard to answer every single question, but you are leaving out a lot. I guess that may be the answer to our questions. ;)</p>
<p>“emilybee, If your particular public school system was not supportive of your son, then it is great that you were abe to move him and that he has done so well.”</p>
<p>It’s just the nature of the beast. 400 in each class - the teachers simply don’t have the time. The honors/AP kids get fawned over and the kids who are really struggling get gobs of help. The vast middle, if they are not trouble makers just get moved along. </p>
<p>There is also a small school within the school (Lab School) which is admittance by lottery, but he didn’t get in. We would have tried that for at least 9th grade but unfortunately didn’t have the opportunity to do so. </p>
<p>Sorry your public school was not helpful to your son but glad the move helped. The start of high school sounded like a good time to make that switch .</p>
<p>Aunt Julia, the point I was trying to make by bringing up my cousins last night is that the consequences of NOT being a top student need not be dire. You later said that you thought your niece was heading toward CC - and even if this were the case, it wouldn’t be a nightmare - but you’ve given zero evidence to suggest that this fear is reasonable. If most kids have their highest GPAs in 9th grade, a decline in GPA by your niece would still leave her in the same position relative the rest of her class that she is now. As for wake-up calls, there are plenty of kids who are totally fine putting in the minimum as long as they can get As and Bs, but do start to work harder if the grades start dropping precipitously. If not, the kind of kid who doesn’t care enough at 15 to start doing some modicum of work to avoid lousy grades isn’t going to magically start caring at a private school. It doesn’t matter how involved the teachers are, if the student won’t make the effort, it isn’t going to matter. </p>
<p>To give it some perspective, I just looked up the admissions stats for Indiana State (I don’t know if you’re in Indiana, but since you mentioned IU I thought I’d start there). The school’s average SAT score is a 900 (M +V). They give a free laptop to every incoming student with a GPA above 3.0. The chances that your niece wouldn’t be able to get into, at the very least, a school of that level given her current level of achievement is absurd. And once there, she’d have every opportunity to grow intellectually and choose a practical and potentially lucrative career path. </p>
<p>The point is, not everyone has to be a super high achiever on track for elite schools.For some kids, a local 4 year is the perfect option. Personally, I WAS a super academic type who wanted very much to go to the best school possible so that I would be surrounded by other students like me, and I acted accordingly in high school. But for a less enthusiastic student, I don’t actually see the harm in deciding that doing reasonably well in regular college-prep courses is enough. Going to Indiana State rather than IU or even Notre Dame is a negative for two major reasons: you won’t find the same kind of academic rigor, and you’ll find it harder to get into top graduate schools or break into some of the most competitive professions. But if you aren’t enamored of academics, the level of academic intensity at Indiana State may be just right, and the vast majority of students are not aspiring to Harvard Law, hedge fund management, or a senate seat. If your niece did find, belatedly, that she wanted to get on a different track, it wouldn’t be impossible to do so; students transfer colleges all the time, and if you become a top student at even a marginal school, there are plenty of doors that will open for you. Heck, I know another person who dropped out of college, drifted around working dead-end jobs while trying to make it in entertainment for ten years, went back to school in her 30s, did well enough to get into a decent (although hardly top) law school, and now makes 150K a year as an entertainment lawyer. The point is, whenever it happens, it will have to be her initiative. And if it doesn’t, she isn’t headed for some grand tragedy. </p>
<p>I do think if your niece is not doing her work and, that’s a problem, since meeting your responsibilities should be a non-negotiable expectation. Unfortunately, as her aunt you probably can’t impose real penalties on her on that score. You can have a conversation with her about the importance of doing your work and leaving your options open for college, especially if she’s aspiring to NYU (which is NOT going to happen at this rate), but I assume you’ve done that. </p>
<p>I think the other school you had in mind for your niece was NYU (I am a big fan of NYU). But NYU I think is classified as “very selective” with an admissions rate around 31%. My understanding is that the best chance of admissions is for students with a 3.6 or above and SAT scores of about 2000. Certainly all that is “doable” but it might put a lot of pressure on a student who is still getting up to speed with academics and also adjusting to a new school. It is also a relatively expensive school and is not particularly generous with financial aid. The costs of Manhattan living are also generally higher than elsewhere. </p>
<p>I believe the OP meant IU Bloomington, the state flagship. Direct admits to Kelley Business School requires a 3.7 (weighted or unweighted, they take the higher of the two) and a 30 ACT/1270 (without writing) SAT. IU does superstore both ACT and SAT. </p>
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<p>I think it can be difficult to determine whether a kid is skating/coasting/slacking and when the appropriate time to intervene is. My kid both cares about her grades and likes to slack; she’s well aware that at her school, an 89.6% and a 103% look exactly the same on your transcript. Her preferred method of slacking is the opposite of emilybee’s son’s: she builds up an initial reserve of high grades, then chooses to fail subsequent assignments until she’s eroded the reserve. I can tell when she gets a 50% because she turned in half-done work and when she got a 50% because she has no understanding at all of one of the two covered concepts, but her teachers mostly can’t distinguish. “My kid who has an A in your class isn’t working hard enough” is about the same level of perceived parental wacko obsessiveness as “My kid who has an A in your class despite randomly choosing not to do assignments and who never asks any questions needs tutoring on this one concept.”</p>
<p>A kid with a 3.8 doesn’t necessarily look like a slacker, particularly if she is somewhat diligent about homework, and poor grades only on final exams is not susceptible to immediate response. (Plus, it looks more like test anxiety than slacking.)</p>
<p>apprenticeprof, I think it was IU-Kelley, not just IU, that was the target. They want a 3.7 GPA and a 30 ACT/1270 SAT.</p>
<p>Somewhere in this lengthy thread I believe the OP said that her niece doesn’t know her major or desired career yet. Am I mistaken? Why would a business program be the target for a student who doesn’t know what she wants to major in or what career she wants?</p>
<p>Getting back to the OP’s original question. The IU-Kelley program says they want a 3.7 GPA. They don’t say it’s ok to have a lower GPA if you transferred schools or had any other excuse. Perhaps they are willing to make allowances but that isn’t how it sounds to me. Plenty of kids will have better excuses for sub-par grades than merely having transferred to a different local school. You should contact them directly if you want more than speculation.</p>
<p>I still don’t understand why a kid with a 3.8 GPA and a student council leadership position must leave a school. AuntJulia says that A’s are given out " like candy" and bad habits are encouraged. There will always be classes where the kids fail the midterm or a test and still get an A or B+ as a final grade. There is usually a rubric as to how grades are determined and very often there are lots of tests, quizzes, homework assignments, papers, labs, etc that get factored into a final grade. It does not mean that a good final grade was not deserved. If a student does very very well all quarter and then gets a 60 on one test, very often the final grade for the year is still decent. We also do not have specific information regarding this girls peer group and why they are a bad influence. Are they doing drugs or are they just more interested in clothing and boys? Additionally, aren’t there any strong kids in the school who are studious and would be a good influence on the niece? AuntJulia this is certainly none of our business and you don’t have to share specific details, but it some of us wonder which is why we keep posting. </p>
<p>AuntJulia do you have information from the new school regarding the breakdown of ACT scores, SAT scores, and AP? I am just as intrigued by this story as others because I get the sense that information is lacking. </p>