<p>AuntJulia is the entire public school like this or just the classes that your niece is taking and the teachers she has? If your niece took honors and/or AP classes at her current high school would she still be given high grades for failing tests and would her poor study skills still be rewarded? Would she have a different type of student to befriend? I guess I am a bit confused because if you place her in the Catholic school you said her GPA would initially suffer because they won’t accept what she is used to doing ( which appears to be nothing), but what would happen if you increased the rigor in her current high school? Would the teachers place demands on her thereby possibly dropping her GPA or would she continue to get good grades despite doing nothing? I am just trying to determine if the entire HS is like this or just your nieces classes. In our HS if kids have a 3.8 then they are encouraged to increase the rigor by taking some honors classes. Are you saying that your nieces high school has not made these suggestions? Are there any honor students in the HS who have good study habits, value education, and who are taking rigorous classes? Does this HS send kids to college? What are the test scores like ( ACT, SAT, AP)? This information can be found on the school’s profile. In my opinion if there are kids doing well on AP tests then something good must be happening somewhere. </p>
<p>Regardless of the school that your niece attends, it is still her responsibility and the responsibility of her parents to make sure her work is done and that she studies for tests. That type of work ethic, in my opinion, comes from the family and comes from the internal drive of the student. The new school can’t force her to do the work- they can give her detention or kick her out and not let her return if they want to ( correct me if I am wrong but they are not required to keep her there)- but they can’t force her to develop these habits. That comes from her. The public school can’t kick her out of school because by law they have to provide her with an appropriate education which sometimes means changing the home school ( ie if a child is found to have certain issues then sometimes the school is changed to accommodate the student). I hope that what you wish for actually happens- that the strictness and zero tolerance level of the new school helps your niece to get her act together. I also hope that your niece and her parents are aware that they have a job to do as well. They can’t only rely on the school to make these changes. There is a partnership involved and generally speaking you will only see positive changes if everybody works together.
I will also repeat what has been mentioned- kids who drink or don’t study are going to be everywhere and it is up to your niece to make the right decisions. </p>
<p>I am sorry for this long post and I mean no disrespect. I also apologize if some of my questions were answered. </p>
<p>I agree with twogirls. What would be so hard to just get your niece into honors/AP track at her public school? It is a matter of having a discussion with her GC. If you are that close with the family, they can easily share her school offering with you and you can help your niece to choose her classes. Once she is in those classes then it would be up to her to do the work. I guess I do not see how a Catholic school is going to make her into a better student. I doubt it if they are going to have time to babysit your niece. They won’t be able to replace her parents. If her public school lacked funding for higher level courses than it would be a good reason to move, but if your niece is not taking advantage of what they have than I am not certain a Catholic school would be a better alternative.</p>
<p>I guess I am frustrated because there are a lot of different variables coming into play here. AuntJulia correct me if I am wrong ( and again I mean no rudeness or disrespect) but it seems as though you feel that simply taking your niece out of her current school and placing her into a different school will “fix” her, after an initial period of instability. That seems way too easy for me as I see so many other factors involved. I agree with oldfort in that a school can’t replace the parents or what is missing from the home. </p>
<p>Correct. You have any other ideas I can employ from 500 miles away?</p>
<p>I think a change of scenery could (again, no guarantee) shake things up academically. At the very least, the dress code, the volunteering expectations, attending mass are guarantees that she experiences some degree of structure. I truly believe the public is all but guaranteed to be more of the same.</p>
<p>AuntJulia can you share some more information about her current HS? Are there honors or AP classes? Are these students also rewarded for doing nothing or are they actually working for their grades? If you look at the school profile do you see the colleges that these kids attend? You should be able to view the average ACT, SAT, and AP scores which will possibly give us further information. I do not recall you answering the question as to whether it’s possible for your niece to increase the rigor in her current school. If the current HS has rigorous courses with a different caliber student, can you meet with guidance to discuss the possibility of taking these classes? Is your nieces entire HS the way you described or just your nieces classes? </p>
<p>If the Catholic school you have in mind is made up entirely of rigorous classes and students who study hard and are eager to learn, then your niece may rise to the occasion, but if there are other factors in her life that are going on then the problem may still be there despite changing the environment. </p>
<p>My husband has a cousin whose daughter ( now in her 20’s) did poorly in a public school. They switched her to a private school and she still did poorly. They finally put her in some type of boarding school that works with kids having behavioral and/or emotional issues and after a year she made a lot of progress and is now an adult leading a happy and healthy life. </p>
<p>@twogirls I’ve mentioned in a few posts that the school is large and offers an honors track (she’s not in) and numerous AP courses. I’d characterize it as an average, large, middle class suburban school. In the top 25, there are 5 going to Indiana, 1 going to Wash U, 2 going to out of state publics for athletics, couple of average in-state privates and the rest are staying local.</p>
<p>Another thing to consider is that while some students will rise to the occasion in academically rigorous environments surrounded by peers, it’s also possible some students may struggle or worse, crumble under the academic pressure and sink. </p>
<p>Got to see and to some extent, live this firsthand at my urban public magnet HS. </p>
<p>Incidentally, one HS classmate and a woman I dated who spent her K-8 years in a respectable neighborhood Catholic school and did better than me academically in HS summed up her experience at our HS in the following statement, “For the entire 4 years I was there, I felt so dumb compared with the rest of my HS classmates.” </p>
<p>There is something to be said for the core values that pervade the school experience at a Catholic HS. In addition to academics, they strive to build solid character and emphasize dedicating oneself to the greater good, to helping the community and those in need. This tends to focus the students outwardly, to actively try to be more self-less and to work hard to address the needs of the less fortunate. I’m not in any way saying Catholic school kids are all good or anything, and they are all still regular teenagers, with plenty of them not being perfect angels. However, Catholic schools do actively try, through its experience, to impress upon the young adults the need to look to help those in need and to pitch in for the greater good of the community.</p>
<p>I highly suggest looking at the mission statement of the school. It tells a great deal about the core values, principles and guiding philosophy.</p>
<p>There is also something to be said for the high expectations that are set for the entire student body. There is an “esprit de corps” about a Catholic school, and they are extremely proud of it. Wearing the uniform, being part of a whole, the daily routines are all things that set a tone and an expectation of excellence on everyone’s part.</p>
<p>As for Cobrat’s post, there usually is a safety net in Catholic schools, and a student would not just be left to “struggle or worse, crumble under the academic pressure and sink.” Between teachers and counselors, students would be provided support or help. It is part of “educating the whole person.”</p>
<p>What indicates that she may change if she transferred to the private school?
a. Parental oversight or lack thereof would be the same as before.
b. She would not automatically gain the habits to take more demanding courses if she did not choose them, or she may struggle and get discouraged if she did choose more demanding courses with her current habits.
c. Not all private (Catholic or otherwise) schools have an academically-driven culture where students are encouraged to choose more demanding courses.</p>
<p>@Consolation My sister and I are Catholic because our father was, but my niece was never baptized. They do not attend church with any regularity. There’s not any anti-church dialogue going on in the home, it’s just not something they have done.</p>
<p>Not everyone in the world wants or needs to go to Catholic School, nor does everyone in the world have to agree with this style of education. For those that do, the students and families that choose such an environment find it fits their needs and is beneficial for them.</p>
<p>We don’t have to argue on which educational method is better, Public, Private, Religious-based, Charter, Magnet, or whichever style there is. </p>
<p>Fit is what is important for the individual student. I respect all forms of education. No one is better than another. Selecting a school should be about what is best for that particular student, at that particular time, in that particular place, in those particular circumstances. </p>
<p>Aunt Julia asked if her niece went to a private school, whether the potential drop in GPA would be detrimental to the student’s college admissions process.</p>
<p>I don’t know if all public high schools are like this, but my daughter had to take an exam the year before high school started in order to be placed in honors and IB classes. If you didn’t pass the exam you weren’t allowed to take these classes. Did your niece take anything like this? If so, did she pass them? </p>
<p>I would imagine that if the niece’s GPA drops during her sophomore year transition to the new school and if this drop is explained in the LOR by guidance, then it will be fine. If the GPA drops and it continues that way, I don’t know. I guess it depends on how far it drops, the classes taken, etc. </p>
<p>Also, Catholic schools have much wider discretion to expel students for many reasons…including for behaviors one would regard as expected for a given age/developmental stage. I know of two cases in a Catholic elementary school including one I experienced firsthand in first grade. </p>
<p>Ironically, the other kid who was expelled from the same strict Catholic elementary school under the same circumstances in first grade and I both ended up attending the same public magnet HS. He’s around 8 years ahead of me. </p>
<p>Most people seem to be focusing on the academics, but I think the social aspect is much more important here, from what OP posted. I’d be curious to hear more about what she means by her sister not being thrilled with the niece’s social group - there’s a huge difference between a kid hanging out with not terribly serious students, and hanging out with the local druggies. To refer the OP’s own language in the first post, if she’s really in with a bad crowd, that would be a great reason to change schools, but if her definition of good crowd is “civic-minded, ambitious youth,” I have to wonder whether the friend group is objectively bad, or just not the kind of go-getters that OP would prefer. Not that there’s anything wrong with that preference, but it does change my view on whether or not I’d push something as drastic as a change in schools.</p>
<p>As for academics, I’m not sure why positioning a student who seems to have very little interest in it for a particular type of college is a worthwhile goal. If a kid has interests and ambitions that might better be served at an elite school, its a worthy goal to shoot for. If a kid is performing poorly in high school to the extent that she might be jeopardizing her chance at college, that’s a real problem. But it sounds like OP’s niece is certainly on track to go to a four year college where she can get reasonable preparation for the future. That probably won’t change even if she does worse in the Catholic school - if she totally tanks there, it isn’t likely to be because she is incapable, but because of the same lack of effort that would have caught up to her at the public, and if she doesn’t, her grades will be looked at in the context of a more rigorous curriculum. In any case, academics alone wouldn’t be the major reason to move her or not, from the information given.</p>
That question has been answered by referring to several things:</p>
<p>1) The niece seems to be electing to not challegening herself by not taking rigorous courses. By putting her in a private school, her GPA may drop in the same way as if she was taking rigorous courses at a public school.</p>
<p>2) Putting her in a private school may not necessarily translate to harder classes, so her GPA could continue to be inflated (though I can’t even see how the OP came to that conclusion. It seems like an assumption based on the opinion that public schools are somehow lesser).</p>
<p>3) People already answered that colleges might give her a “grace period” of sorts to get adjusted. </p>
<p>Right now, we are basically discussing the rationale behind the decision to switch schools.</p>
<p>" I would imagine that if the niece’s GPA drops during her sophomore year transition to the new school and if this drop is explained in the LOR by guidance, then it will be fine. If the GPA drops and it continues that way, I don’t know. I guess it depends on how far it drops, the classes taken, etc."</p>
<p>My son’s GPA only went up, up and up since he had to actually do work and study on a daily basis. </p>
<p>Small classes where he wasn’t able to stare out the window and daydream and not be noticed was one of the keys. </p>
<p>And as an aside - we are Jewish and still sent our son to this school. It was good exposure to have to take religion for 4 years ( it was taught as philosophy and not dogma.) He was required to go to Mass once a month but all he had to do was sit there. </p>
<p>@emilybee That’s great for your son, but I’m not sure it is fitting to use that one analogy to encourage the OP to make a certain decision. Unlike your son, the niece is performing at a high level in easy courses. So her GPA could try well get lower, lower and lower.</p>