Agreed that the Canadian schools tend to be stats-based and not EC-based which could make them a great fit for the OP’s student. And at least McGill gives acceptances on a quasi-rolling basis. My son heard back within a few weeks of applying, and McGill rose to his “top two” from that point on. It made the whole process so much less stressful to have a great acceptance so early in the season.
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Hopefully OP will check back in. If looking at TE, I’ve heard that Syracuse gives a lot more TE awards than other schools. Case Western is a good suggestion but they love demonstrated interest. For good merit, I’d check out the Jesuit schools- Fordham, Xavier, Loyola in Chicago, Marquette, etc. W&M is a good suggestion but might be over budget. American University & McGill would also be worth checking out, too.
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It’s crazy to me - everyone is responding with pricey schools - and no one knows the budget.
And gap year? Why?
This is no different than anyone else with a budget - find out what it is - and then find schools assured to meet it. If OP decides they are too football, that’s a choice.
But schools like W&M and CWRU and Syracuse - it’s obviously OP doesn’t want to spend $50K plus.
We can’t help them - until they want to help themselves by providing some specificity.
But I can’t imagine 90% of these suggestions being what they have in mind - not a small school and we don’t want to blow half our income.
Very elitist.
Your choice to pay half your income for his education to get a name brand, but I can’t think of a flagship east of the Mississippi that doesn’t have an honors college, a specialty in something (engineering, arts, politics), a way for him to be top dog at the school. Yes, Ol’ Miss won a football game yesterday and a LOT of kids go there and love the football, but their writing program is strong, engineering does fine, and if it is SOOOO easy that your son will sale through, his GPA will be great for law school. Does he have interest in engineering (a great undergrad major for law school)? SUNY Buffalo, Ohio State, Maryland, Florida State. A friend’s son went to U South Carolina and majored in accounting and has had a great career (other son went to Ol’ Miss and yes, they all said the tailgates at Ol’ Miss are the best in the south, and that’s saying something!)
What about your tuition exchange school? If a parent works there/teaches there, is it such a terrible school?
Or you can just see how it plays out and take a gap year if he doesn’t get in anywhere he likes.
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On the contrary, it’s obvious that OP does want to spend $50K plus, as long as they deem the school “worth it.” Otherwise, they wouldn’t have focused on “Ivies and other top schools” in the first place. They just don’t want to be “shelling out half our income for a mid-tier school” - if the student goes to a school they deem less-desirable, their willingness to spend will be proportionately less.
In that context, folks are recommending schools at a range of prices, which may or may not land above the the line on OP’s perceived prestige-vs-cost curve in terms of what they’re willing to pay. As such, I don’t think W&M is an inappropriate suggestion at all (other than the tight deadline). I think CWRU and Syracuse have lower odds of coming in “above the line” in terms of perceived value, but OP has been so vague that people can hardly be faulted for throwing the metaphorical spaghetti against the wall to see what sticks.
You often make the case for not criticizing one another’s suggestions, and I think there’s particularly little justification for cross-critique in this case. We’re all just guessing, unless/until the OP provides further clarification and feedback on the suggestions that have been made.
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Fair comment/critique - and yes I can see why OP’s search went awry - because the search here is unknown until they provide detail.
But my hunch is they seek inexpensive. But you are right - maybe they are ok on spending half their salary as they noted on one they deem worthy.
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My kid goes to a football school. Most people bring it up because it is an easy talking point. She doesn’t like sports and had found lots of artsy/ geeky things to do on campus. When people ask if she has been we just say, nope. Doesn’t like football and then it stops. Most people aren’t interested in the events she goes to like Jane Austin’s birthday, musical theater, or opera events and that is okay. People usually want to connect on the familiar and that is just fine.
Your kid will find his group at whatever school he ends up at as long as he puts himself out there. As long as he applies himself academically and gets involved he can develop a compelling application for future school/ job oppurtunities.
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I think Canadian university prices might have gone up a bit faster than US universities? It seems to me that they cost more now than when my S23 was applying to them. My D26 applied to McGill and UBC, and even after accounting for the exchange rate, they are both more expensive than most of the other schools on her list (primarily OOS flagships). Toronto costs even more, so she didn’t bother to apply there. Of course if the OP is not price conscious this wouldn’t be an issue. At least the application process is very straightforward…
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Yes, there’s also the question of exchange rate changes - depending on the trajectory of the US economy, the cost of a Canadian school could go up (or down) even without a change in the CAD sticker price. So one would need to be risk-tolerant in that regard.
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They have, especially McGill. But in terms of being stats-oriented and not EC focused I thought they might be a good match since the OP doesn’t like their own flagship and other flagships might be expensive. But since we don’t have details, it’s just more spaghetti on the proverbial wall!
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Yes, McGill COA is now around $70k USD for my D’s major… few US flagships cost that much OOS.
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But the BA is much less— probably around 50k.
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Adding on: I was surprised at the difference in price between stem and non-stem at McGill. One kid applied to both and the difference was significant.
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Yes, McGill Arts costs less (although I’m not sure it would be THAT much less), and it would be a safety for this student.
I know current and past students who attended places like the Ohio State University, and University of Michigan who never once attended a football game. I’m sure there are like minded students at every college with a strong football team.
Back in the Stone Age, I went to a few football games at my public university. It was actually fun…and they had a terrific marching band so the halftime show was fabulous.
I’m not sure that whether or not a college has a strong football culture should matter as long as the academics are OK.
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The problem is that the University of Alabama seems to be an exact fit for the OP’s perceptions of schools that the OP has an anti-preference against.
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I think it’s a safe assumption that if OP or spouse is employed in academia in some capacity (faculty, staff, etc.) that they understand that even rah-rah football universities have students who don’t attend football games, that a heavily Greek campus will have students who do not pledge a fraternity, etc.
Agree that learning more about what the student is looking for/financial constraints and preferences is going to help us guide the OP. But telling a parent that if the kid specifically doesn’t want a football oriented U that “it’s ok, not everyone goes to the games” seems a little insulting to me. It is not an insult to the thousands of people who love football (alums, students, university employees, folks living in the surrounding areas)- let them go and enjoy. But it’s insulting to suggest that a kid who doesn’t want that environment needs to just shut up and attend the opera with a few friends (yes, most opera lovers know that– as do all the fans of “non mainstream” hobbies and interests.
I was something of a social outcast in HS. What a relief to get to college and to be part of the “mainstream” culture! I wasn’t “popular”- nor did I want to be. But the mainstream culture of the place was aligned with my interests and it was shocking and wonderful.
CC is remarkably sensitive to kids who have LD’s, kids with food allergies, kids who are trying to be pre-med while being a recruited athlete. Folks have all sorts of helpful suggestions. But woe to the kid who doesn’t want athletic culture to dominate the next four years of his/her life. Apparently, that’s the “CC Red line”.
OP- give us more information and we can be more targeted in our suggestions!
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Case Western or Kenyon?
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Thanks for the suggestions, all. I appreciate them. I know I’m being vague, but we can discard the suggestions that don’t make sense. We’d have to dig in and do some research, anyway. But to be a bit more specific, no real preferences on location except not NYC, and no smaller than about 8000.
The big football/Greek scene is one we’re hoping to avoid, but I’d rather do it out of state, if necessary - at least he’d be spreading his wings a bit.
But the biggest level of specificity you need to give is budget.
Is $50K ok - because a lot of schools are $50K+?
Or do you need under $30K, etc.
So 8K or larger makes sense - and E of MS but not NYC makes sense - but then what is the max out of pocket?
And what is your home state?
There will be better suggestions - but we need your help - so we can help you - max out of pocket and home state.
Otherwise, we can name most every 8K+ school out there - as many have or will. If we knew the price point, we can get lower.
For example, Central Michigan and Louisviile are two that come to mind as cheaper - but are they better fits vs. what you have in-state as safe?
Someone mentioned Pitt before - great thought - but it’s near $60K or over depending on the major? So does that work.
This is why we need to know max out of budget - so we don’t name every school and we can give you real ideas.
Thanks
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