Ideas for safeties late in the game [4.0 GPA UW/1550 SAT/15 APs, mostly 5s/NMSF]

Parents Forum
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My son has been applying to Ivies and other top schools, but we’ve been unrealistic to even look at this. He has the scores/grades/APs, but not the ECs or life story to make him a compelling candidate. He has a couple of safeties, but for the same reasons probably won’t get merit aid or the tuition exchange. We won’t get need-based aid, and I question whether we should be shelling out half our income for a mid-tier school.

Our state flagship is a football team with some sort of academic program attached, and the quality of the other universities in the state goes down from there. Suggestions for places that are likely to admit, not be too expensive, good education (aiming for law school, eventually), not too small, east of the Mississippi, and won’t be offended that he only has looked at them in the last two weeks before applications are due? Or should he be looking into a gap year or something?

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You need to provide:

GPA

SAT/ACT

Budget

State of Residence

Law school - you don’t need top tier. You will need , potentially $100k a year. But your gpa, LSAT, and work experience for many today - will be what matters, not where you go undergrad.

Harvard has 160+ schools in their first year class of less than 600. Yale - more than 200 schools in their last 5 classes (that’s about 1k kids total). UVA - 130+. Penn has 200+ schools represented in its law school.

So Arkansas State to Youngstown State, you’ll find lots of non selective school students in top law schools.

Why would your kid take a gap year ? How does that change their profile ?

Provide stats and budget (ahd state of residence) and I’ll find you some schools to meet it.

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How can anyone give you any suggestions? Please give the information needed as noted in the above post.

If you are looking for competitive merit aid, you might have missed some deadlines already for applying to colleges for that.

How much merit aid do you need?

If you were letting your kid apply to Ivies and the like, those are close to $100,000 a year. Are you planning to pay that if he gets accepted? If not, does your son know this now?

The SUNY schools are not AS costly even for OOS students. Maybe look at those. What about University of Delaware? University of Maine offers a tuition match for students from some states.

Would your son be interested in schools in the southeast? University of Alabama offers guaranteed merit aid if your son qualifies @tsbna44 can tell you the qualifications, and if the application deadlines are in the future.

Are these safety schools affordable without merit aid, or tuition exchange? If not, they are not true safety schools. A safety is one that is a school you would be happy to attend, where acceptance is likely and the cost is affordable.

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Does your state flagship have an honors college?

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Did you consider American Univ. ? Accepting TE Import until Jan15.

https://www.american.edu/financialaid/freshman-scholarships.cfm#:~:text=At%20American%20University%2C%20Tuition%20Exchange,Decision%20freshman%20applicants:%20January%2015

Check also
Quinnipiac Frb 1 deadline for RD
Fordham has Jan 3 RD but March TE imprt

Said to have good pre-law programs.

What about your own institution? Would it be inexpensive for undergrad?

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I don’t think anyone should be shelling out half their income for a top tier school, but that’s just me.

If law school is the goal, it matters little where the undergrad is. GPA, LSAT and perhaps maybe some legal-related internships or summer jobs in your community, possibly volunteering for local elected officials, will matter.

Respectfully, there are likely people in this community who have attended your state flagship and have had wonderfully positive outcomes and are leading successful lives. Your son’s “safety” is someone else’s dream school.

Law school applications are up as much as 30%. Your son will be entering an already saturated, very competitive field. The best advice is to attend an undergrad where he can excel in his studies, get involved in the campus culture and begin to build his resume for law school applications.

As far as a list of safeties, please provide the additional info requested above and many fine folks on CC will provide you with a workable list.

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4.0 GPA UW/1550 SAT/15 APs, mostly 5s/NMSF. He’s not a weak candidate, but those are table stakes for the competitive schools.

I know my comment about the flagship was a little snotty, but literally every conversation I have had with anyone who went there - all in non-football contexts - revolved around football. (My dental hygienist - oh, your son’s at flagship? How’s he liking it? What’s he studying? - he got to go to some football games this year. Random parent at school - how’s your oldest doing? Oh, she’s at flagship. Look, here’s a picture of her and her boyfriend at a football game. Community theater - my college experience was great! Nothing like tailgating. ) There’s also a huge Greek scene, which he’s not much into.

Budget is hard. We have a 529 and some grandparental support. I had just thought the tuition exchange was more likely than it is, and he’s applying at home institution but they accept a lot ED so no guarantees there.

I’m not too worried about law school right now; he may well change his mind. The main thing is he is not STEM or engineering.

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What about a school like St. Olaf? He’d likely see merit there. No greek culture, not a big sports school. One of the very smartest/strongest students I know did their undergrad there and loved it.

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Look through the.Colleges that Change Lives list – perhaps Goucher (1/15 deadline) as one idea. Hard to make meaningful recommendations without academic stats, preferences, etc.

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You might add Pitt (rolling admissions, but get that in ASAP), Elon, Miami Ohio (large proportion of greek life), U Dayton.

I second U Delaware.

Someone suggested American…if he’s interested he has to start demonstrating interest today. Do a virtual admission session, add it to his common app.

Since he’s NMSF has he looked at schools that give large merit to NMSFs? (although he may have missed deadlines so check that).

Alabama (deadline to make the full ride a guarantee was Dec 5), UTDallas, and Tulsa. Look on various CC NMSF threads:

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Sewanee

Case western-not a safety, but has good merit for kids who are at the level of your student. Application doesn’t have any supplements so it is an easy one to add now. See my graduating seniors thread for stats and merit for my student and my parent impressions thread.

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If it’s not too late, I would also look into the honors programs at some of the large flagships. Some are more like a “college within a college” and have separate dorms, dining halls, and libraries. Honors programs offer many leadership opportunities, access to special programs and some even offer special study abroad programs. There are quite a few posters on CC whose kids said no to an acceptance at a prestige college in favor of an honors college opportunity at a public university that came with a lucrative scholarship offer. I don’t believe I’ve ever read any regrets.

I do get it; they’ve worked hard and have the stats for prestige and deserve to be rewarded. It’s a tough pill to swallow when realizing an academically excellent student is one of many.

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This is easy -

At Bama, with SF, you have $28K off - so you are $23K all in. If you get NMF, you have 5 years (not four tuition, so could be a 5th year (which if you have APs could be half of law school at the law school ranked #31 in the country. You’d also get four years housing, $4K a year in $$ (covers the food) and $2K one time. They have Honors - and then they have sub groups of Honors.

Louisiana Tech is another - not sure if it’s E of the MS River - they say - Available Awards: Unlimited awards which pay tuition, fees, on-campus housing, and meals for four years. They don’t show a semi-only but you can look into it.

You didn’t mention your state - I asked for a reason. Some regions have regional compacts - but if you’re referencing a football school and nothing else you’d be wrong. I don’t know if this is your state - but they have as many if not the most NMFs as anyone.

So budget drives all calls - and yes, there are schools - Bama, UGA, Ohio State, Texas A&M, etc. where football is king - but that means little in regards to poor academics.

There’s others I know - but W of Mississippi - Tulsa is likely too small and as a NMSF, you get free tuition and room. U Houston - free tuition.

NJIT has competitive scholarships - you can get up to free tuition.

But when you are budget constrained, you don’t look the gift horse in the mouth - and all these football schools, are R1 schools with research and academics galore.

Now as for less expensive type schools, you can do a W Carolina or C Michigan for $20K ish all in. C Michigan goes up the last few years. A U Alabama Huntsville - known more for STEM - for $18K or so all in. And there might be other Sourhern regionals under $30K or so. Lower cost in the NE might be a U Maine.

I hope you find a TE - although I don’t know what it entails.

But you can find options below $30K easily - and if you get NMF, don’t look the gift horse in the mouth. These “football” schools produce great kids. I know - my kid went to one - and he’s not a football or Greek kid. We played tennis during the Bama shellacking yesterday - he didn’t even watch - and yes, he’s gainfully employed, had lots of offers and is paid well. These schools are societies in and of themselves - but yes football is something all of us in society like to talk about. Heck, there’s a thread on here about it. And some have big greek life - but yet it’ll be 33% of the school - but will seem bigger.

So that’s some ideas - but if you provide your state of residence, maybe there will be more.

But when you are budget constrained, you have to make tradeoffs - and you should be appreciative of those willing to buy your kids in - period, end of story.

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I think OP has to give a budget. Mentioning specific school names - like Case, Pitt, Delaware- these are best case $45K, high 50s.

We need to know:

  1. An actual figure - not that we have a 529 and grandparent support - that really means little. We need a $ figure - $20K or $40K, etc. - whatever it is. Not general statements.
  2. What state is OP from - some match regionally (New England) or schools like Louisville give extra discounts to kids from different states. This is why I asked but I don’t see it answered.

OP still hasn’t provided enough info - to know where to steer them - short of NMSF. Hopefully they get NMF.

I’m not sure how anyone can throw out pricey names - without even knowing the budget - but OP needs to move and quickly because if they have a tight budget, they did not handle the search properly. When you have limitations, you have to work within what people are willing to offer vs. just expecting (which only those willing to pay in full get to do).

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William & Mary is my go-to for the kind of school you laid out (high academics, eastern/mid-Atlantic, not obsessed with sports/greek life, more affordable than most private schools (even as an OOS student), good for pre-law), and I would put it in the likely column for your student because of the scores you posted. They do factor in interest, but I don’t think a lack of interest would be a deal breaker.

(They have a high admit rate because of sharing in-state students with UVA, who often end up preferring the rah-rah-ness of UVA, which means W&M has to admit a higher percentage of students than peer academic schools. Incoming students are practically identical, academically, with incoming students at UVA.)

With your son’s scores, I could see him qualifying for Monroe, which gets OOS students a $10,000 scholarship every year.

The RD deadline at W&M is 1/5.

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There’s still a chance at Bama:

“If eligible students submit an admission application and all supporting documents after December 5 or by May 1, they will receive consideration for admission on a space available basis.”

I know that’s not what the parent wants - and may be the school they are discussing - but…..

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Throw in an application to Fordham if he is open to attending school in NYC. They might offer him the full tuition or even full ride scholarship. No Greek life. Excellent preparation for law school. Do complete any optional essays.

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IMO, William & Mary is on the high side for OOS tuition (maybe more reasonable with merit $). I realize the online estimates for OOS are often on the higher side and include several charges that aren’t applicable for every student, plus room & board costs fluctuate.

Again, everything is dependent on OP’s actual drop dead budget. Also in play is the fact that some places have earlier deadlines for merit consideration that will disqualify OP’s student.

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Have him apply to SUNY Binghamton. The deadline is 1/15. Another good one is Pitt.

Take a look at the cost and see if you are able to pay before applying- it might be late for merit.

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Also, Bennington college has a “late decision" round. Reserving money and seats for great students who are rethinking their lists after the normal admissions season. Application deadline is April 7

Hopefully just knowing that is there can take some pressure off.

Hugs to you and your student. This is a stressful time!

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