If like Harvey Mudd and USD we are talking about the benefits of a well funded private school, not somewhere like Cal Poly that is cash strapped, facilities are aging, dorms are horrible and getting in classes can be a nightmare. Go into CPO with eyes open. Some have a good time there, but it does not fit everyone. A visit will tell you if it fits within first 10 minutes being there. High performing neighbor just transferred out after two years because last quarter he could only get in 10 units that were on his degree path. Thoughts he shared at a recent bbq: Has to go every summer to get out in 4 years, CP students are young minded - most kids go there that just want to be a few hours/drive from home but no more than that. Also, nothing to do in SLO after you visit the farmers market and the same restaurants. Too much a bubble. But most disappointed in the academics, thought he would have got a better education at many other choices he had.Felt like he had been way over-sold on the school.
For the two she likes it seems the baby is to go to one of the 5 Cs and take advantage of all they have to offer. Or as has been suggested SCU or Rice. Rice really seems to match what you are looking for. SCU is great engineering and was listed as one of the top schools SV companies hire the most from - not a surprise - but considered it is so much smaller than the other schools on the list, it is impressive that they hire so many from there. Carnegie Mellon, tough to get in, but the best of the best and way up on that hiring list. LMU meh for engineering, but gorgeous location, then there is USC - it seems to do everything well, very difficult to get into engineering or business there, but both excellent.
In contrast, my son, a third year ME, is taking his first graduate level class. He’ll only have 22 hours left his fourth year and not only will have his BS completed in 4 years, but most of his masters. His friends are all on track to graduate in 4 years. How many summer classes? None. As with ANY school, YMMV.
Mudd has been on a building spree lately. Don’t knock the campus if you haven’t been thee in the past few years, they have some nice new buildings. Also, I think Mudders tend to go on to grad school because they like college and are good at it, and the types of students who get through Mudd also enjoy research. That is why my kid and several of her close friends are going to grad school. They are all quite employable already.
We were at Mudd just a couple of weeks ago. You could tell which buildings were new, but there’s still a lot of room left for improvement aesthetically. Probably wouldn’t have been so noticeable had we not come straight from USD!
@eyemgh - thanks for the clarification re: the ability to switch major. Sounds like our kiddos are very similar in what they’re looking for.
We’re working up plans now to visit Rice, LMU, SCU, Cal Poly and Stanford (it’s okay to have a super stretch on the list right??) Are going to pass on the 5 C’s since she didn’t like how disjointed the schools/campuses felt.
Super stretch? Absolutely! It is a bit random though, so it’s important for her to know that a rejection from them doesn’t infer inferiority on her part. They simply have WAY too many good applicants. Stanford was the only school where my son was denied. They took a legacy from his HS and have never taken anyone in the past who wasn’t. That’s absolutely no knock against the girl who got in. She was very qualified too.
One general thought is that you shouldn’t narrow colleges based on the intended Eng major - a lot can change. Engineering is a painful, long slog for the majority of students (including the > 1500 SAT ones). Try to think strategically about $$ and also apply to colleges that might smile on a California application.
Instead of reaching for Stanford, what about Brown or Dartmouth? You will have amazing professors and classmates at any Ivy school, even if they don't have specific engineering majors, but instead have a general Engineering major. Fewer California applicants to the smaller Ivies may mean more interest on their part. Stanford is not lacking in Calif. applicants.
A high college GPA is important for MBA admissions (B-school is a possibility for any engineer) and it is very hard to get a high engineering GPA, especially in 4 years. So look into schools that offer tons of money, e.g. Baylor, and plan to take 5 years. Baylor offers free tuition for high SAT scores. Graduate with a high engineering GPA in 5 years, with maybe a full year abroad? Sounds pretty good. If she is allergic to Southern society, just hang out with fellow nerds in the Honors dorm. Worst case is that she goes native and becomes a Southern belle.
Rice is great, too, but hard to get merit aid. Might as well go Ivy if you are paying full tuition.
It seems you are looking at Catholic schools. How about Manhattan College? Big job market, might get merit aid. A Calif. application would be welcomed.
“Rice is great, too, but hard to get merit aid. Might as well go Ivy if you are paying full tuition.”
What? Choose Brown or Dartmouth over Rice when they both have engineering on par with second string state schools and skip Rice, simply to get into the Ivy League? That’s crazy.
“they have engineering on par with” - what does this even mean, for undergrad? Do you need a nuclear reactor on campus, or an underwater ROV? What students need is bright peers, prestigous degrees, small classes, and smart profs/TAs. Ivy engineering is just fine for them. In fact, the fewer the engineering students in your Ivy school, the more intimate and strong the education, likely.
Or do you just read USNews engineering rankings?
The majority of engineering degree holders eventually leave the engineering profession. So, yes I would recommend Ivy over Rice, at the same tuition price.
Anecdote: As MSFT CEO, Steve Ballmer spent a certain amount of time recruiting (to show the company how important recruiting was). He recruited Harvard CS students. Are you telling me Harvard CS is amazing, but Harvard engineering is sh*t?
Hahaha @ricealumnus - I absolutely cannot imagine D as a southern belle!! But who knows…college brings out different sides to everyone! Great point about not pigeonholing just into Engineering. All of the schools still on the list offer Engineering as well as business, which is potentially in the cards for her as well, and all are solid institutions so a non-engineering degree from any of them should still hold plenty of weight.
And while we are Catholic, she’s pretty indifferent to whether the school has a religious affiliation or not. I think it was just coincidence that the medium sized schools that fit the bill happened to be Catholic universities.
We are actually Colorado residents, no CA. I don’t know that many schools are clamoring for Colorado residents? Guess I never thought about how living in a certain state might be an advantage for admissions. Is this really a thing? And is CO even a blip on any school’s radar??
Getting back to the OP, I see a problem with the schools named. If one of the top concerns is merit aid, many of the Catholic schools and public schools listed are not top of mind when it comes to merit aid. I mentioned Baylor earlier. Consider focusing and finding out which schools offer the serious merit aid $$.
Yeah, D would get guaranteed merit $ from Baylor and Trinity based on her GPA and test scores. Fairly confident she would have a good run at the Presidential Scholarship at USD. Someone mentioned LMU might offer a decent amount based on her credentials, and I’ve also heard SCU is somewhat generous with high performers as well.
Am not counting on anything from Rice or Stanford as those are much more competitive to get into. I guess the prize there is just admission!
Even if Cal Poly doesn’t offer any merit, the total cost is so much less since it is a public school that it may fully offset the amount of aid D would receive from the other schools.
Without a doubt, engineers can be great out of any program. Some of the sharpest minds studied at Podunk U. What I was pushing back at was the assertion that it was worth going there because it was an Ivy. Would you pick an engineering program because it was part of the SEC? Post that on the engineering forum and see how much traction that idea gets. For $250,000 (or far less), there are LOTS of engineering programs I’d choose over Brown. If for some odd reason I HAD to go to the Ivy League, I’d choose Cornell for ME.
Happy to help. I’m not sure how much geographic diversity matters, but it is something. It’s harder for SoCal students to get into USC… And being from the Northeast may have helped me a bit to get into Rice, twenty years ago.
If merit aid is top of mind, try to distinguish the schools that offer merit aid (most every college) from the ones that offer LOADS of merit aid, and make sure to send some applications to the latter category. Good luck!
P.S.
Can’t resist a few more names:
Cooper Union
NYU
NYU-Poly
Washington & Lee
Columbia 3/2 Engineering program with liberal arts colleges