if my birth country forbids dual-enrollment, can I become a US citizen in secret?

International Students
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<p>it’s not circular. the whole point is that your evaded your country’s national service. that’s the point. that’s it. and i was trying to make a separate point, a point which i duly completed in the latter half of the sentence. please be courteous enough to quote the entire sentence. just because you think you can be retrained for combat in the future doesn’t erase the fact that you DID evade national service. that means something to the government and to most people here in general, even though it may not to you. and it’s still a military crime. so you’re gonna get screwed. you might think the presiding government is unjust, but within the scope of military law it’s entirely fair.</p>

<p>and no, you can’t simply do NS anytime you decide to come back to Singapore. NS is not administered by your grandfather. once you miss your first enlistment call-up you become a deserter. if you’re caught and jailed, the time served in the detention barracks doesn’t count towards the discharge of your national service so… you’ll have to stay two more years after you’re released. hm.</p>

<p>i think what you really want to do is be an American citizen; but you don’t want to serve NS in an environment where, as you said, Americanization may be a bad stigma, and can’t renounce your Singapore citizenship because you don’t wanna do your NS. so you want to keep both to avoid the potential trouble you might face if you go through the actual procedure to give up your Singapore citizenship. if I were you, I’d just go back to Singapore, pay my dues for 2 years, officially and properly renounce my citizenship, then go back to America permanently. that way you won’t have anything to fear, especially if you return to Singapore for visits afterwards.</p>

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<p>Whether or not you think the Singapore government is just or not, you can’t really argue with the laws. Lol. Yes, I agree with screwitlah, NS is about being in Singapore army, as he aptly put it, to be an army of conscripts to defend us. </p>

<p>This post doesn’t really have a point I’m just really amused by the goings-on XD</p>

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<p>I don’t have the funds currently to travel anywhere overseas. We’re already digging deep into our savings to drive down to Virginia. </p>

<p>I do not want to evade my NS … it’s just really difficult to even travel back. I’ll be willing to do anything to serve my duty.</p>

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<p>not affording the trip back is just a lame excuse… i’m sure if you email mindef and tell them politely about your situation they will find a way for your to travel back to spore for your NS…</p>

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<p>What to do with my UVA admissions is another matter of course.</p>

<p>I am increasingly convinced (indirectly by this thread) that I should just naturalise to US citizenship and never return. Facing such hostility, loss of opportunity and the possibility of losing my civil rights anyway, I’m finding difficulty in seeing the advantages of Singaporean citizenship or why I should ever return. Sure the nasi lemak’s nice, and I yearn to return to a simple lifestyle in an HDB flat, and to see my primary school friends, but when I was younger I didn’t know I would come this far.</p>

<p>Ahh, pragmatism. When I was younger I didn’t know why exiles were so timid. It was easier to be principled I suppose, when I had less at stake.</p>

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<p>you’re going to remove any possibility of seeing your home country and relatives again just because you want to evade national service?</p>

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<p>**** no.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS…why the bloody hell do you think I’m just another absconder? I’m willing to pull double, triple duty, but I don’t want to give up my UVA admission. You must forgive me. I’m young. I have ambitious plans for my life, including dedicating myself to the research of linguistics (including the scientific study of creoles like Singlish!) Neither do I see the benefit of even coming back to do my duty when they’d arrest me anyway.</p>

<p>I consider myself more Singaporean than American you know. Maybe until now. I swore myself, my country, and my best friend (before we parted at Jurong East MRT Station December 21, 2004) a resolute oath that I’d be back. </p>

<p>I’M NOT TAKING THE ISSUE LIGHTLY SO CAN YOU AT LEAST RESPECTFULLY GRANT ME THE RECOGNITION THAT I HAVE A RATHER TOUGH DILEMMA TO DEAL WITH?</p>

<p>I don’t see why you all have to be so condescending with every post you make. I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.
I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.
I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.
I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.
I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.
I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.
I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.
I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.
I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.
I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.
I DON’T WANT TO EVADE NS.</p>

<p>Do you think that if I wanted to evade military duty and hard labour, that I would even consider the US military?</p>

<p>How many times must I repeat it to get myself heard?</p>

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<p>You know what. I wish George Bush called a draft right now with my number picked out of the Selective Service lottery thingy, so at least then I’d have a legal solution to my problems.</p>

<p>Pity the candidates I support for the presidency want to enact a withdrawal plan …</p>

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<p>you won’t be arrested if you come back on time to do your duty. otherwise, you’re still evading national service. do you really think the rest of us back home don’t make equally hard sacrifices to fulfill our obligations?</p>

<p>UVA allows admitted students to take gap years before matriculation.</p>

<p>and, excuse me, most people already have a bad impression of you coming to this thread and reading about your trying to think of sneaky ways to get around the system. please understand if we don’t buy your noble intentions so easily.</p>

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<p><em>One</em> gap year is the custom, as I recall. I was unaware you could take more than one.</p>

<p>If this is true, it will be an option I will think about. MINDEF will really provide free air tickets ah? [And how am I supposed to get back?]</p>

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<p>i’m not clear about UVA itself, but many schools allow two years too. i know many Singaporeans who do that. ask UVA about it.</p>

<p>LOL i don’t know if MINDEF would provide free air tickets for you. i think the poster was kidding. you can call MINDEF though.</p>

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<p>I’m not Singaporean, but I don’t see why you guys are being so hard on galoisien. I think he’s made it pretty clear that he’s more than willing to go back to serve NS, but due to certain circumstances that make the whole thing so complicated, he’s not entirely sure on the appropriate course of action to take. I may be being naive, or there are some… nuances behind this situation that I, being a non-Singaporean, won’t be able to grasp, and this is the Internet anyway so you can never be too sure if everyone means what they say (I may just be misinterpreting the apparent causticness and nitpicking of posts in this thread) but I’m sure we can all try to give him advice without sounding defensive/hostile. Aye?</p>

<p>galoisien, yep, I do believe that UVA allows deferment. If you’re really concerned about this NS thing I think it may be more helpful if you contacted mindef, like what 1234d suggested.</p>

<p>*<em>Haha, I guess I just type really slowly, but yeah, let’s keep on being chillaxed, okay? :smiley: *</em></p>

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<p>Yes, galoisien, many schools allow you to defer matriculation by 2 years, especially since NS is supposed to be mandatory. In fact US schools are generally more obliging than UK ones when it comes to deferring, even if their websites hint otherwise; you really have to email them and explain that NS is compulsory. Many Singaporean males do defer matriculation, so I was rather surprised when you didn’t seem to know this.</p>

<p>Just curious though: if your family is that poor, why did you guys fly over to the US in the first place? Sorry if the question’s too personal, I’m just intrigued. Most low-income Singaporean families wouldn’t do that. Were your parents just incredibly far-sighted (and self-sacrificing)?</p>

<p>Good luck. I suppose I’ve been too harsh on you too; sorry.</p>

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<p>nope i was’t joking about the mindef part. i just find it almost unbelievable that not being to afford an air ticket is sufficient to justify giving up one’s citizenship (and the obligations it entails). </p>

<p>mindef may or may not give you a free ticket (they could just source for a vacant seat on SIA you know…) but i think they will definitely help you in some way if you really want to serve NS but can’t afford to do so. </p>

<p>as for your admission to UVA, i also find it hard to understand why you can’t write to UVA and explain that you need to defer to serve NS. as far as i know, MOST of the colleges in US DO know about spore’s military system and are more than accomadating enough to allow you to defer.</p>

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<p>OK, I’m confused. If galoisien renounces his Singaporean citizenship, and accepts a US citizenship, why would he not be permitted back into Singapore as an American? Americans can travel to Singapore.</p>

<p>My parents were born in Eastern Europe. They are naturalized Americans. They can travel to their homelands on their US passports. They do not hold dual citizenship. Their only citizenship is American.</p>

<p>Now obviously he could not run for public office, but would he be refused entry or arrested if traveling on a US passport?</p>

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<p>Chedva: Singapore will not allow him to renounce his Singaporean citizenship until he serves his 2-year mandatory national service. if he does not turn up for national service enlistment, he’ll automatically become a deserter and will be arrested upon any contact with Singapore immigration or customs officers.</p>

<p>[Compulsory</a> Military Service in Singapore - U.S. Embassy Singapore](<a href=“http://singapore.usembassy.gov/military_service_in_singapore.html]Compulsory”>http://singapore.usembassy.gov/military_service_in_singapore.html)

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<p>chedva - </p>

<p>Yes, immigration officers can and do deny admission if you try to enter a country with what they think is the “wrong” passport. DH has a very old passport from his birth country, although he was naturalized in a second country in early childhood. Under the laws of that first country, DH, DD, and myself are all considered citizens and are highly encouraged to travel there only on that country’s documents. Not that we are likely to go ever, but the immigration officers could technically turn all three of us back if we tried to enter without that country’s passports. DD was born in DH’s second country, and I have been personally told by their consular officers that yes indeed DD must always have a current passport for her birth country, in addition to her US passport, or she will be harassed by, if not denied admission by, that country’s immigration officers on arrival. Even if she’s 95 years old, and hasn’t been back there since she was 5.</p>

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<p>Thanks, screwitlah; didn’t realize that.</p>

<p>happymom, that’s wild. Is it because of the dual citizenship? I can’t imagine that one would have to travel with the “passport” of a country of which one is no longer a citizen.</p>

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<p>Birth country considers DD a citizen forever. There’s nothing we can do about it. If DH ever gets around to naturalizing in the US, I don’t know what would happen should he visit his second country on a US passport, possibly nothing as his US passport will give his birthplace as his first country and his name is fairly common in both countries. Then again, the immigration officials could have a freakish attack of organization, realize that he used to have (and may still have) their passport, and ask for it.</p>