<p>Yes, I would agree that he seems more like a Pitt person (being a Pitt alum myself), but you must also take into account the expense of Pitt compared to the other state schools. I would never consider Pitt a financial safety due to the crazy increases in tuition each year. For example, when I started my degree at Pitt I had enough money to get through all 4 years debt-free. By the time of graduation (I did manage 4 years, not 5) I was in ~$10,000 debt from just one year. Pitt and PSU are both pretty darn expensive flagship state universities imho.</p>
<p>I agree fully, Ophiolite. I think PA state tuitions are outrageous anyways. But Sue’s son’s stat puts him into the running for the chancellor’s scholarship and some other grants, along with the honors college. My friend’s daughter who went there did very well with merit awards and she was not as well endowed with the stats this young man has. Also with a low EFC, the family will qualify for some state money for aid. Don’t know how much they give at what levels, but there is that money which is lessened for out of state schools. I believe the merit awards are given in terms of tuition rather than dollar amount.
Then again, he may not get the money. Don’t remember what the odds are or if it is automatic via stats–they should look that up on Pitt’s website. But I think the odds are good. They are not like some scholarships where only a handful of kids out of thousands get any substantial amount.</p>
<p>“Oh… One thing none of us will ever be able to ‘reimburse’ his/her parents for: They were the reason for our existence, and the pain mothers tolerated at our birth is said to be second to death.”
I was the original poster on that thread. I’m not sure what your point is here, but I can tell you that I want nothing from my precious girl other than her happiness and success. My husband and I were blessed with our darling and consider it our honor to educate her and see her into adulthood with as many tools for success as possible. We are responsible for our own retirement income, not our daughter. This young woman is the light of my life and and all I want from her in the future is the pleasure of her company. And grandchildren.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse:</p>
<p>I agree, I’m just afraid this late in the game he wouldn’t have a great of a chance to get the biggies. Worth a try if he wants to give it a chance though!</p>
<p>My kids have a friend who procrastinated forever about applying to schools. I remember asking the girls mother in February where she was going to go/waiting to hear from. The mother said she had not applied anywhere. This was a smart girl, probably top twenty in her class. She ended up applying to Pitt and was accepted and did get very good money - probably finaid and merit aid. A friend of my son’s was offered a full ride at Pitt last year but applied early in the fall. He ended up choosing PSU - honors. I agree that Pitt is probably a better fit then West Chester and even further away, which might be a plus. Of course, we all know how easy it is to get the kids to do the apps, no matter how good the fit.</p>
<p>The distance away from me could be across the street, no need to be 7 hours. and he’s close enough to get to philly if he wants. He will NOT have a car purchased by me, ever.</p>
<p>That’s the last thing I have ‘hand’ on :-)</p>
<p>The most important thing (in my eyes) is to get him somewhere I can afford. And if he got into Boston or NYU or Columbia with a great financial aid pkg, then great.</p>
<p>He’s not the type to want to come home on weekends. He’s used to being away from home, been going to camp for 10 years. Yes, I know school is not camp, but he doesn’t get homesick.</p>
<p>digmedia,</p>
<p>I couldn’t agree more. It is my husband’s and my responsibility to provide for our childrens’ education. They owe us nothing but to be as invested actively as we are financially in their schooling (i.e., do your homework, participate in class, learn). Then, when they are parents, I hope they will do the same for their children.</p>
<p>"They owe us nothing but to be as invested actively as we are financially in their schooling (i.e., do your homework, participate in class, learn). "</p>
<p>Ding, Ding, we have a winner! </p>
<p>That is ALL that I am asking. If you want the $$ support and for me to have to cover your butt sometimes, then do your best! I’d rather have an ‘average’ student who was doing all they could and being appreciative of my financial and emotional backing than a ‘brain’ who started projects the night before they are do, yet was out all Saturday and spent Sunday on the couch doing nothing.</p>
<p>I don’t think my son grasps how much differently I’d feel if he was enthusiastic about filling in a form or 2 for a scholarship. I don’t even care if he gets the money as much as I care about him wanted to TRY. I don’t care about perfect, but not doing your best is something I’m not good at. And trust me, I feel this way about adults too. If seen crappy doctors and yet have met trash collectors that went above and beyond the call of their job. I care about effort. And good effort begets (I think that’s a word!) success. </p>
<p>Unfortunately for my son, he will get no Pell Grant and I have a very high EFC (12K). Blech. So getting $$ that aren’t soley based on need is important. One of the scholarships I want him to try for is for federal employee dependents (I work for Dod) They give them to people in every state. It’s based on merit. It’s something he should try for.</p>
<p>Tokenadult- I just scanned all the posts after yours but want to make a comment on yours. Do NOT sacrifice your retirement funds for your child’s education- everywhere I’ve seen financial advice they tell you not to. You can get financial aid for the kids’ education but you can’t replace your retirement tax savings. Also, you can always help out later, but you can’t take back the money later. Let the system do what it can, my understanding is that noone requires your retirement funds to be considered in financial aid planning (I’m lucky, I went from “my debts die with me” to able to afford it- that’s what hard work and a good education can do for you).</p>
<p>Something my father and I agree on- children do not owe their parents, they PAY FORWARD to the next generation, as mentioned by another poster. This applys to paying school taxes as well- someone else paid for your children’s education before you could afford it, now that your children are grown it’s time to pay for the younger ones.</p>
<p>melbusefi- My immigrant husband does not expect his son to support him (aside from the fact we have earned a lot). “What use is a child…” you do not have children to help you in your old age, that is a very selfish view. My husband and I certainly do not expect anything from our son; I would much rather he looked after the future generations. Consider this- what do parents do when their children emmigrate to a far land? Either the parents must leave their loved and familiar culture to be with their children and struggle with a foreign culture/not fit in or they give up knowing their grandchildren. You, and every other immigrant, broke with tradition by leaving your birthplace and coming to the US; you cannot follow all the traditions of your homeland. Do not expect your children to agree with you, or to even know what is taken for granted in your birth country, they are dealing with life here- with all the pluses and minuses you chose for them by immigrating. Consider it a privelege to have the money to pay for your child’s college, a better economic situation is probably the main reason you came here.</p>
<p>Tokenadult, many of us have sacrificed our retirement contributions during the college years, some of us have even dipped into accumulated pensions and some even depleted them. The financial consultants all say this is NOT the thing to do. Always there are circumstances where you can go against this advice, but they are right on this one for most cases, and it is not something to be ashamed about. The kids should also see this as a necessity, not a luxury. Some things do have to come before college tuition in a family. There are a number of crises having to do with health that everyone would agree upon. Others get dicey. But it is a great gift that a parent can give to have funds available when they are old. A major problem in our household is that both my husband and I have elderly mothers that are needing support. This cuts sharply into our funds and income and to deplete our pensions to cover college costs as our parents cut into our funds, would be continuing the cycle when our children become parents. There are many alternatives for getting a college education. An elderly parent does not have the time or the choices, as the quality of life you give at the moment can truly be the last especially when they are in fragile health. It is also a lesson to the next generation. Better than an expectation to care for the elderly is to do it. Better than to constant stress that the kids need to become self sufficient is to ensure that you are doing so yourself. You are going around incircles creating an dependence on you, the parent as you deplete your resources to give the child as close to an ideal few years in college, even as you increase the chances that you are creating a future dependence on this same child that you are creating a dependence on you. Confusing? Yes.</p>
<p>Sue, not to belabor a point – but communication is a two-way street. You wrote of your frustration because your son won’t do what he is asked… sometimes it is all in the way the question is asked. Unfortunately he is 17 – if he were 9 I could probably recommend some good books that would help you change your style of communication & interaction and get more cooperation. There is not one particular system that works for everyone – but there are plenty of books with an array of approaches to offer that are well worth the read. </p>
<p>It’s pretty hard to start making the changes now, though… for one thing, from your responses, it seems like you are pretty much entrenched in your style. There is nothing wrong with your style of communication for some people – that is, everything might be just fine if you had a different kid. I learned a lot about flexibility and differences in parenting style when kid #2 came along… I thought I had things pretty well figured out with kid #1, but kid #2 has a totally opposite personal style – she even comes out as a polar opposite on personality quizzes – whatever one kid likes, the other doesn’t., what works with one will lead to a fight with the other. So I have to talk to them differently and deal with each on their own terms. </p>
<p>It sounds to me like your kid has a whole lot going for him and a few bad habits. Unfortunately, his bad habits are the sort of things that drive you nuts – like his procrastination. So now you are both caught in a rut of having the same argument over and over again. I’m not trying to attack you – what you describe reminds me of my relationship with my own mother – my more laid back, easy going relationship with my kids is partly a desire to avoid repeating my mother’s mistakes. Having once been the resistant kid, I know that the kid ends up “winning” in the end, in part because the kid is willing to risk more in the fight than the parent. The fact that you won’t move the rug because your son wants it and the room is cold illustrates my point – if it were me and if I had a rug that I cared about, I’d tell the kid that the next time I saw gum on the rug the rug would be gone… and it would be. I’ve let my kids go to school in their pajamas or wearing dirty underwear because they didn’t follow the rule of placing all dirty laundry in the hamper in the hall – if the clothes were on the bedroom floor, that is where they stayed. I didn’t argue with them or yell… just said things like, “that’s too bad” or “I guess you should have thought about that before.” </p>
<p>As to organization skills - I’m a procrastinator myself, and my way of dealing with my son was to simply let the chips fall where they may. What he learned very early on was that mom wasn’t a reliable reminder system. We ended up with a large wall calendar posted in the kitchen, and what got written down on the calendar was remembered, what didn’t get written down was forgotten – and he got in the habit of using the calendar after he got his license because that was also the place that determined whether the car was available for his use. </p>
<p>The best thing that ever happened to my son in terms of organizational skills was when he got promoted and put in charge of other people at his job – at age 20 he was able to run an office with 40 employees and make sure the payroll got out on time – and as far as I know there were never any major glitches. It’s just that once he could be the one making the rules, there was no more resistance. </p>
<p>On another note entirely: </p>
<p>NYU gives notoriously bad financial aid and BU is not much better – neither college promises to meet full need of their students. I think NYU gives good packages to only the top 5% of their incoming class – if you get an invitation in the spring to “Sunday at the Square”, it means that you are accepted and will get a good financial aid package; if you get an invitation to come to “University Day” the following week instead, it means that you are accepted and you will get a crappy financial aid package. That’s just the way it works. BU has more of a sliding scale system, correlated to GPA & test scores, giving better aid to the stronger students, and they have a chart on their web site giving some indication as to what to expect. </p>
<p>Columbia financial aid is much better, but if you own your own home, they are going to factor in your home equity so the EFC is probably going to end up higher than the FAFSA.</p>
<p>Sue, to add another dimension-- you are at the very beginiing of the process of learning to parent an adult and not a child. Your son was a kid for 18 years; with luck and health, you will get to be his mom for another 60+ years starting now.</p>
<p>Don’t let the patterns you’ve set for the last few years be the template for your adult relationship with him, or I can assure you-- you will see him on ceremonial occasions and when it’s convenient. He’ll do it out of guilt but not out a desire to share his life with you.</p>
<p>You can change the pattern; you can be the one to set the stage for being the mom of a grown up and not a child. You both seem to be doing your utmost to push each other’s buttons and as frustrating as that must be to you, imagine what it’s like for him.</p>
<p>So- stop saving him. At the end of the day, he’s going to get tired of wading through chewing gum to get to the computer, so he’ll start to pick up after himself. If the schools he gets admitted to are unaffordable, he’ll have to reapply for the following year and get aggressive about applying for merit aid. Once you stop being the one to nag, remind, cajole, and eye roll, he’ll either spend the rest of his life vegging in the couch, or will dust himself off and get moving.</p>
<p>Many, many of us on CC had sons on the couch who managed to fix their lives once we stopped enabling their crappy behavior. You can too.</p>
<p>Don’t sacrifice your retirement, don’t sacrifice your health; don’t make his needs come before your own. You can get through this year I promise you, once you start treating him like an almost adult.</p>
<p>Well we’re not going to get any invitation to NYU if the application doesn’t get submitted on time. thanks for the good info.</p>
<p>I know his chances of getting in and being able to afford any 45K school is very slim. He still doesn’t get it. I’m thrilled that he’s applied to a school that is about 16K (and I know he’ll get accepted there unless they are full by time they get to his application which is still arriving at their admissions office).</p>
<p>I could not bear to think that April would come and we’d find out that the only schools he applied to either rejected him or we can’t afford and then we have to scramble (at the last minute) to find anywhere to go to school. </p>
<p>I’m pasting this quote I just read in the paper to his door.</p>
<p>“You may delay, but time will not, and lost time is never found again” Ben Franklin</p>
<p>Sue,
The financial aid aspect is why I mentioned people I know that got money from Pitt. On these boards, it’s kind of known that BU and NYU are not known for aid, as calmom mentions. Pitt is a little better and the way finaid works (very generally) is that if you have better stats then most of the students that are applying, you will get a better aid package then a student that fits in with the average applicant. At NYU and Boston, the stats for the student applying are higher, and lower at Pitt. Therefore, he has a better chance at Pitt to get some aid. I’ve got two kids in private colleges and we’re paying just a little more then what we would have had to pay at PSU.</p>
<p>The other reason I chimed in about Pitt is because you started out your posts mentioning that your son was applying to some well ranked colleges, and is somewhat of a prestige hound. If he gets into them (we know he’ll get in at WCU) he will most likely give you a hard time about going to WCU. However, if he got into Pitt, it might be a more palatable alternative for both of you, assuming they give him a good financial package.</p>
<p>I like that quote Sue.</p>
<p>BU is pretty much to the formula as Calmom notes. NYU is more variable, but it seems that they are big on geographics. Many kids from here and Boston and other major feeder areas with high scores did not get much whereas I know a number of kids from areas scarcer in NYU students get money with with lower stats. Of course so many qualified kids from here apply to NYU that they could fill the school with them. Don’t know where Philly would sit in this scenario. I know kids with his stats who did not get need met, and those who got nice merit awards supplementing a need package.</p>
<p>"Yesterday he came home at 3 pm. At 8:30pm he said he was going out to get a posterboard and a color cartridge for the printer. I already had both of those things in the house (Me = prepared, He = last minute person). What if he really needed those things and couldn’t find them and assignment is due today. Yes, I know, he wouldn’t have had it done. "</p>
<p>Presumably, you got the posterboard and cartridge for him. You are enabling him. Why should he bother getting prepared when you’ve taught him that he can count on you for back-up.</p>
<p>The last time that I did something like that for S, 18, he was a freshman in h.s. and had a science project due. I went to Walmart at 3 a.m. to get things for the project that was due that morning. I told S, “never again.”</p>
<p>Did he immediately change? I wish! However, I have noticed a gradual change over time once I allowed his failure to plan to be his problem, not mine.</p>
<p>Your S’s IQ is in the 140s. Do you realize that more than likely you, too, are gifted? It is very unusual if gifted kids don’t have gifted parents. I really do think that you could be paying more attention to your own life and giving yourself opportunities that your parents didn’t. From the clarity and thoughtfulness of you writing here, you are clearly a very bright person. What are you plannning to do with your life to achieve your dreams for yourself? </p>
<p>I know people who have gotten college degrees when they were in their 70s, and I am sure that you aren’t that old. IMO, it’s time for you to pay more attention to yourself and giving yourself the chances that you hadn’t been able to have before.</p>
<p>Back to the subject of the boys who have grade problems, the smartest kids in S’s rigorous academic program were the ones who, in general, had the worst grades. This included S. I wouldn’t have known about the others except that I was tipped off by the head of the program, who didn’t name names, just said that the gifted kids were the ones whose grades were worse.</p>
<p>Then, I was talking to the parent of one of S’s friends. Father is a college prof in the sciences. His kid is incredibly brilliant, but spends all of his free time playing video games. Kid a had an 800 v, but got an “F” in AP English and had to repeat it, delaying his graduation. Why? He didn’t like the teacher, who admittedly was dreadful, and taught in a simplistic way, but still, the young man could have easily gotten an “A” in that class.</p>
<p>You probably don’t hear about things like this unless you tell others about your concerns about your S. People probably see your S’s successes and think that he’s a perfect kid. You probably do the same with others’ sons when you see their successes.</p>
<p>“Well we’re not going to get any invitation to NYU if the application doesn’t get submitted on time. thanks for the good info.”</p>
<p>The invitation would go to your S, not to both of you.
If he doesn’t get the app in, that’s his problem, not yours.
If your smart young man gets acceptances only to colleges he can’t afford, that will be his problem, not yours. It also won’t be the end of the world. He can take a gap year, work a fulltime job, and apply more wisely. He is perfectly capable of doing this, and it wouldn’t hurt him in the longterm. Indeed, working a job would probably teach him the importance of adapting the organization practices that he has been avoiding.</p>
<p>You might want to tell him now that if his colllege options don’t work out this year, he would be welcome to stay home, follow the house rules, work a fulltime job and pay rent, or he could choose to move out and live his life as he chooses.</p>
<p>I was born here as were my parents. My views are consistent to some extent with the OP. While I do not anticipate needing support from my children, it is my expectation (maybe naively), that they would be there for us. </p>
<p>I feel a personal obligation to support my parents and my wife’s parents when necessary. This would be shared with siblings where possible. I guess my views are in the minority, but so be it.</p>
<p>My gifted, young (just turned 17 this past fall) son ended up at his safety school, an excellent public U, because he would not apply to more than two other schools despite our repeated suggestions/nagging/whatever (and he was one of those January applicants at our insistence). He also could have had a 4.0 like many less smart classmates, he learned the material but didn’t always do the work required. Fortunately he is getting top learning situations through his honors classes and it may be the best fit at this stage in his life. He is beginning to realize what he could have done differently last year, no lessons can be forcefed, no matter how hard parents try. He will be well prepared for grad school at an elite college, if he wants that. Some of the same qualities that got him as far as he did also contribute to the reasons he didn’t do better- eg independence, stubborness…, I’m sure many parents could fill in similar traits for their high achieving children. It is hard to let, excuse me, “let”, ha, son makes his own decisions; we can only suggest or remind him that he’s still a minor and we need to sign some papers, therefore we have a say in some issues (housing contract, we said no to an apartment for next year…) and we are footing the bills so we can insist on some things or we won’t pay… </p>
<p>Letting go is a hard process; I think the college application process is where it really hits parents that their little boy/girl is a person in their own right and they can no longer control events. Instead of being required to sign and decide parents are specifically not invited to participate, except after the fact when financial matters need their input. </p>
<p>Blossom- 60 more years??? Most of my ancestors, mother included, died in their 50’s, I hope to have 20 or 30 not so good years at the rate I’m falling apart bit by bit (despite all my medical knowledge) to make the average lifespan. The 75 refers to a college graduation date.</p>