If parents pay for their children's college.....

calmom · January 7, 2007, 8:04pm

Sue, I also feel that you should get counseling for yourself – it was the best thing I ever did with my son. (And amazingly enough, I only needed ONE session - though my son also went – he was 13 at the time, the counselor talked to each of us separately and basically I had gone in expecting the counselor to ‘fix’ my son, and ended up with him telling me in a gentle but direct way where I was going wrong, and where I needed to stay. I don’t know what he said to my son, but my son seemed to have a big change of attitude too.) The think that strikes me is that your posts repeatedly attribute an intent to hurt you to your son’s behavior (“He’s my polar opposite intentionally” “this is all his choice to be this way” “He is being this way to Spite me. I am convinced of that.” “I think he’s trying to punish me.”)

Has it occurred to you that your son simply has a naturally different personality and style from you? With somewhat different priorities in life? I mean - I’m someone who is content to wear old clothes & no makeup and my daughter seems to think that life requires a shopping trip for new clothes every week and a closet filled with 70 pairs of shoes… but it never would occur to me to look at it her extravagance with clothes as personal, directed at me. I blame it on too many hours watching “America’s Top Model” (ha, ha). The point is: appearance & clothing are important to her, not very important to me. The personality differences between my daughter and me are enough that we would probably never be friends or associate with one another if we weren’t related – but we get along very well. My daughter told me last night that I am the only person she could stand living with… simply because I leave her alone and let her be herself, where other adults seem to be constantly harping on her. (The others she is referring to are her dad and her boyfriend’s parents – she has spent too much time with both recently, and pretty much has fled them in a rush to get back to my more tolerant nest).

It seems to me from your posts that 50% of the problem with your relationship with your son is you. I am not blaming you – this is inherent in any relationship between 2 people – the responsibility for maintaining the relationship is equal – both people have to put in effort and make compromises. But here is the big secret that the counselor told me 10 years ago, that saved my relationship with my son (and prevented me from making the same mistakes with my younger child): between parent and child, only one is the adult. So the adult needs to not only assume the burden for their half of the relationship, but also understand and recognize that the child lacks the maturity to really do their part – so at the very least the adult needs to be understanding, compassionate, and willing to forgive --and the adult very definitely needs to refrain from falling down to the kid’s level in terms of interpersonal conflict.

I do think it is positive that you have the ability to recognize that your son’s moving out with friends might be a way of saving the relationship – too many parents try to cling when they should be letting go. One thing that happens when there is physical space between the families is that the kid gets a different perspective.

It sounds like your son likes to spend money on things you don’t approve of, but in the past when you have asked him to pay, he has – and he has had a job and earned money on his own. That, plus the fact that he definitely wants to move away from you, are good signs – your son has both the skills and the motivation to manage on his own. So I think the best approach is the direct one: again, tell him that you can contribute X and no more, and let him figure out the rest. He will when he has to. The fact that he is now willing to send in an application to West Chester is a good sign – he is getting the message that you may not be able to afford the colleges he has applied to.

My son dropped out of an expensive private college after flubbing his GPA (not kicked out, but doing poorly enough that he knew that the money for tuition was not being well spent). I stressed a lot, then took the direct approach I advocate – it was the hardest thing I ever did, but I gave him a short deadline and made it clear that he was not welcome to live at home unless he either had a job or was back in school. He got a job, moved out and was living entirely on his own, and supporting himself, within about 4 months to put it all together. He is now back in school, at a state public which was beneath his consideration when he graduated from high school, paying his own way – he’s happy, I’m happy, and we get along wonderfully… as two adults with mutual respect for one another. Sometimes it really is important to simply back off and let a young adult experience the consequences of their own behavior, including the need to budget for themselves and pay their own way.

Try to have faith that things will work out, and above-all – try NOT to see your son’s behavior as stemming from an intentional desire to hurt you. It really isn’t – at his age, he is struggling toward independence and control over his own life, and likely has very little awareness as to how you feel about it all. It’s not that he wants to hurt you - it’s that he simply isn’t thinking about you – and his thoughtlessness is not a matter of callousness or cruelty, but of immaturity. Small children are self-centered and do not see their parents as separate human beings, but rather see them as being extensions of themselves, existing for the purpose of serving their needs – adults think differently - the transition from childhood from adulthood takes time and can be painful, and in many ways a 17 year old is still much more a child than an adult.

sueinphilly · January 7, 2007, 9:04pm

Hey the advice here is worth 6 months of counseling. No one better to hear advice from that people who have been there, done that. And yes, I agree I’m half the problem.

We got the prepaid cell phones so there are no overages. I tell him not to use his phone in the house, yet I know he does. I ask him to give me the phone when he comes home so he’s not tempted. He refuses to do so. He says to let the minutes run out. I could do that. But I want to be able to reach him and he travels on city buses after dark so I think he should have one. He knows I’ll put more minutes on the phone. I just ask that he exercise restraint on usage. I don’t mind being generous to someone who appreciates it. He seriously thinks he is ‘owed’.

How about this. He spends most of his time in our basement (with his own computer and tv). he likes to chew gum, many pieces a day, and throw it at the wastebasket. It ends up on the floor. I asked him a million times not to do this. He retorts back “stop coming down here and I’ll pick it up before I come upstairs”. He is serious. This is his solution (and he does not always do a complete job at gum disposal). Yes, he maniputes me and wants the upper hand.

This is what happens when nobody has ever been here to say “listen to your mother”. I had hoped it would come from within, but it didn’t.

bookworm · January 7, 2007, 9:17pm

Dear Sue
I’d be grateful that his rebellion is with gum inconveniently placed, but still doing well at Central HS and (I suspect) not involved in substance abuse.
In any relationship, BOTH people feel like VICTIMS. You can identify what he does that annoys you, and I’m sure he has his own list.

Nonetheless, I have a friend with twins. One does typical teenage acts that are annoying, but also does so many things right (was HS athlete, got jobs thru vacation times, studied for SATS, etc) and the other was obstinant about everything. My friend would never claim to be the perfect parent, but it was certainly easier to raise one of these girls.

cptofthehouse · January 7, 2007, 9:31pm

With all the powerplays and rebellions going on at your home, it should be no surprise that this college process which is often stressful for even families that are riding smoothly, is bring up your blood pressure and bring out the worst in both of you. All of this is more typical than you think, and hopefully you can learn to deal with it better. I say this because this may be the last few months you really have together. For many kids, once they leave for college, that is it. It would be great if somehow you could work it out. He isn’t going to change much. If anything, kids get worse these last few months; maybe nature’s way of making the separation easier. And it’s stressful for them to leave too, and it annoys them greatly that it does bother them when there is another part of them that cannot wait to ditch home. Hopefully, all of the things you have told him about picking up his garbage, watching his finances, looking for less expensive clothes, using cell minutes wisely will come back to him as he matures, even though he scoffs at all of this now. Many times our kids do end up like us but not through a direct route. I see this with our religion. Many parents are so upset their kids sack the religion in college and early adulthood. Well, when the children come, all of a sudden it all comes back. I saw this in our generation, and (I’m an old mom, my youngest just let me know that I am the same age as his classmate’s grandmother!) the generation after mine. Those hard swinging singles that settled and had their kids are now singing different tunes. There is a long period of time when it appears that your values, advice, experience mean nothing to your child, but usually it resurrects itself when this horrible but necessary period of time expires. You gotta hang in there to see if it happens with yours.

calmom · January 7, 2007, 9:35pm

I think for a 17 year old, your request that he give you the phone to more control than any teenager will be comfortable with - so it is very normal that he is going to refuse.

Is the phone for him, or for you? If you are using a prepaid phone, maybe there should be 2 phones – one that he has for personal use, and one that is ONLY for calls to/from you that he takes for those trips – that second phone wouldn’t require much in the way of $$.

All children feel their parents “owe” them – again, that is just a matter of maturity. The more you give your son freedom to make his own choices and responsibility (including financial) for the choices he makes, the less you will see of that attitude. When you debate with him over who is holding the cell phone at home, or how the gum in the basement is disposed of, you are creating the battleground. When you back off and let the chips fall where they may… then you will find that in the end the kid is more appreciative of your help.

From what you say, I really think YOU want the upper hand, he just seems to want to have some part of his life where he is in control of himself – such as being master of his own little chunk of space in the house. If it were my kid, I’d stay out of the basement and let it turn into a total mess. Maybe rather than have your son move out and live with others, you should consider simply giving him his own space that is entirely off limits to you in the house.

No – what happens when 2 married parents are living together is that they tend to disagree on various childrearing issues and the kids learn how to play one against the other. Dad is just as likely to be the one who is relenting or giving the kid permission to do something that mom already nixed (often unknowingly), or handing over extra money, as the one who is saying “listen to your mother” --and the balance of parental power is forever in flux & shifting.

What you do get with another parent in the household is a second point of view, sometimes a united front against the kid, but often an advocate for the kid and a very healthy check on your own impulses. As a divorced parent with a father still very much in the picture, I also found that the statement, “very well, if you don’t like me you can go live with your father” pretty much put a stop to every argument that my kids had with me about household rules – but of course that only works when Dad is perceived by the kids as being the harder parent to live with.

Northstarmom · January 7, 2007, 11:51pm

“Going to Sears wasn’t ‘good enough’”

I know you love your S, but you need to stop caving into his guilt trips. The two income, well off families whom I know shop at Sears and Goodwill!

"Several years ago, he needed a jacket for a dance. I got him a Jos. A. Banks jacket for $6 at the Salvation Army. And we all know that it probably cost over $100 new.

He still holds that against me"

His holding a grudge over the limitations of your income is his problem. You don’t need to make ityours. I can not emphasize more that people whom I know who are things like two income families with college professors or lawyers as the parents are shopping at Goodwill and are proud of what they’re saving! I keep finding this out when I complement friends on their clothes. They think that people are silly to spend $100 for clothes that they could get for a few dollars at Goodwill.

Your S seems to be expert at manipulating you to cause you to feel badly so that you feel that you owe him even though you seem to be doing a wonderful job as a supportive single parent. Investing in therapy will help you hold the line and get a clearer picture of what it’s reasonable for you to do for your S and for him to do for himself.

Northstarmom · January 7, 2007, 11:56pm

"
This is what happens when nobody has ever been here to say “listen to your mother”. I had hoped it would come from within, but it didn’t.-"

I have been married close to 30 years with a supportive, husband who was always very involved with our sons. Trust me: All kids will test their limits whether or not they are in a two-parent or a one-parent home. All parents end up having to choose their battles as kids make their breaks for independence. Teens’ bedrooms or main living spaces are places of aggravation for many if not most parents.

In choosing my battles, I don’t look in my S’s bedroom. Indeed, I shudder at the thought of looking in there.

Hanna · January 8, 2007, 11:47am

“From my experience, there’s a good chance that a student who can’t get their college paperwork done without their parent structuring their time is not ready for college”

YES YES YES. There may be kids who’ve been pushed into college and surprised everyone by thriving, but I wouldn’t bet any of my hard-earned money on that possibility.

“I can not emphasize more that people whom I know who are things like two income families with college professors or lawyers as the parents are shopping at Goodwill and are proud of what they’re saving!”

That’s the truth. I make a great living, yet I’m sitting here in my Payless shoes with a bag lunch in the office fridge. I could afford to wear Manolo Blahniks, eat lobster every day, and still put money away, but why? These shoes are perfectly good, and I’m on track to retire in my mid-40’s.

On the other hand, one of my sisters is in that brilliant-underachiever group. She has an English degree from an excellent college and parents who would have paid for any graduate school. My other sisters, a UCSF doctor and a Yale lawyer, would readily agree that she’s the smartest in the family. For almost 20 years, she’s been living hand to mouth, waitressing, temping, crashing with friends, amassing credit card debt. Everywhere she temps, they offer her a full-time position with benefits, but she says she doesn’t want one. She’s 40, and my parents stopped supporting her a long time ago. She doesn’t drink or use drugs; she just meanders. If she were truly happy being a hippie, then great, but she doesn’t look happy to me. What brought her here? Are we doing right by her by letting her sink or swim? I don’t know. I’m not sure what this says to parents with kids who are treading the same water. Some people are willing to settle for a lot less than they’re worth, and maybe there’s no way to change them.

swimcatsmom · January 8, 2007, 12:33pm

That is possibly true and quite normal for the age. Heck even at 53 I am horrified when I realise the things that irritate me most about my Mum (who I love dearly) turn out to be the things where I am most similar to her. Teenagers definitely want to feel somewhat in control of their own lives and it is a hard line to walk between letting them have that and still being the parent. I would agree with previous posters about picking your battles. His room - so long as there is no vermin just let it go. The phone - I definitely think expecting him to hand it to you when he comes home is a battle not worth fighting. Money issues - I would say tell him what you can afford and stick to it. For instance the clothes for the DC trip - if a similiar issue comes up give him what you think is reasonable and let him go to the store himself. If he comes back with one $100 shirt he can wash it every night. Make it his responsibility. Same with prom - tell him this is what I can afford to contribute - here you are - and let him decide what his priority is. Same with school.

cptofthehouse · January 8, 2007, 2:18pm

Hanna, I have a brother who went down that path. He, too, was the brain of the bunch in the family, and he did go to a top college. Just didn’t do anything afterwards. Which goes to show you that those designer degrees do not come with any guarantees. After some problems when a number of us stuck out our necks to try to get him into a better track, we just left him alone. He has settled now, not anywhere he should, could be, if he were just more directed, but it is his business. From the disasters that occurred when we did try to “help” him, we had to come to the conclusion that though he is not happy where he is, he could be unhappier yet when you put him somewhere more challenging that he did not get himself. That’s why I worry so about my son. Is this thing genetic?

sueinphilly · January 8, 2007, 3:46pm

I can’t thank everyone enough for their encourage, feedback and constructive criticism.

That gum is going onto a oriental rug. I can’t justify why gum should be thrown intentionally onto a floor (with no wrapper around it, just gum)

Yes, I do want some form of control. I should have the last word. I don’t think you are comprehending the utter contempt my son has for me when I ask something from him that he doesn’t want to do. I get tired of having to defend myself.

Let me describe my son’s first homework assignment in kindergarten. Cut things that start with “A” out of a magazine (or draw a picture) and write a line of upper and lower case “A”. My son, who was not even 5 yet, says “I can name a hundred things that start with “A”, what’s the point of cutting out pictures. I can write “A” already, why do it over and over.”

Doing something ‘just because someone asked you to’, has never been something he did. This has been going on for a LONG time. He has always been contrary.

How about this. He’s 3 and losing gloves all the time at preschool. I say “put them in your coat pocket”. He instantly replies “it’s not a coat, it’s a jacket”. IMO, this isn’t something most kids will say.

Last year his english teacher called the house on memorial day and tells Eric she needs to put in a grade, bring the assignments (that are obviously overdue) to her first thing in the morning.

This isn’t just gum, or clothes or phone issue. This is someone who does everything at the last minute and mostly only if he feels like it.

Lastly, He failed Art in 9th grade. Why? work wasn’t turned in. Yup, a kid with a 790 sat math score, failed art.

Whoever said children learn what they live, didn’t know anyone like my son.

Northstarmom · January 8, 2007, 3:47pm

“That’s why I worry so about my son. Is this thing genetic?”

I’ve wondered the same thing particularly since the lore on one side of my family is that in each nuclear family is one very bright male – usually considered the brightest of the siblings – whom the rest of the family ends up having to take care of or who ends up working jobs far, far below his capabilities.

Example – my great uncle, allegedly the family brain – never went to college. He became an elevator operator. His 3 siblings all got college educations, including one who became a dentist around 1920 (amazing for any family back then, but particularly amazing for a black family)!

What I have noticed is that in my family the smart/lazy person, however, got enabled all over by siblings and parents who went out of their way to take care of him. For instance, I remember my grandmother and aunt going out of their way to prepare dinner each night for their younger brother, who lived blocks away from their home and was perfectly able to cook for himself.

“That gum is going onto a oriental rug. I can’t justify why gum should be thrown intentionally onto a floor (with no wrapper around it, just gum)”

Matter of factly remove the rug out of his room. Don’t bother to get into an argument about it. I’ll be surprised if he misses it. Obviously, it doesn’t mean much to him.

“Whoever said children learn what they live, didn’t know anyone like my son.”

BTDT, know plenty of hard working, good role model parents who are in the same situation.

"Last year his english teacher called the house on memorial day and tells Eric she needs to put in a grade, bring the assignments (that are obviously overdue) to her first thing in the morning.

This isn’t just gum, or clothes or phone issue. This is someone who does everything at the last minute and mostly only if he feels like it."

BTDT. The solution seems to be allowing him to feel the consequences of his actions while you detach from the situation.

With younger S (1540 v, m) SATs, he was such a procrastinator senior year that for several days before his final grades were due, he was up all night writing long overdue papers. Literally, his graduation was up in the air.

I said nothing, neither did my husband. I just e-mailed the GC and asked her to tell me if he would graduate. My husband was out of town on work, and needed to know whether to buy a ticket to fly in.

It ended up that S graduated, but when he went to the graduation rehearsal, he literally was scared that he’d get pulled out of line for being there by mistake.

“Lastly, He failed Art in 9th grade. Why? work wasn’t turned in. Yup, a kid with a 790 sat math score, failed art.”

Older S, 750 v. As a h.s. junior and senior was being paid by some of the country’s top newspapers for writing articles that he went far out of his way to get in well before deadline.

Senior year AP English fall semester grade: “D.” Why? Among other things S-- a voracious reader – hated the books, so wrote his book assignments at the last minute using Cliffe notes. He also didn’t bother to hand in the vocabulary definitions that the teacher assigned each week. (The words were easy for S. He could have done the assignment without bothering to look up the words.)

When we had the teacher conference on this, S didn’t bother to show up: Said he thought it was just for the teachers, GC and his parents!

Anyway, I have learned that much as I would like to force my sons to make deadlines for their own good, I can’t do that. When I try, I just get upset, and they continue to procrastinate. They aren’t babies anymore. Time for them to feel the consequences of their actions, and time for me to move on to doing much more to have my own life be happy and fulfilled – which is possible even when our kids insist on messing up their lives.

I seem to remember that you haven’t been to college. It seems your S isn’t that interested in his college education. Perhaps instead of devoting so much energy to trying to help him, you could focus on helping someone who would appreciate a college education: Yourself. Whatever your age, it’s not too late for you to go to college. There even are plenty of programs and scholarships for women who are older than the traditional college age.

cptofthehouse · January 8, 2007, 4:06pm

Well, we do have them on both sides of the family tree. Males with no direction or motivation, but with the intellect to go far if it just could be applied. I remember watching “Amadeus” many years ago, and the thought, words and sentiments of the court musician S_____?, remain in my mind, as to how God could give such talent to such a fool. Not implying that mine are any such geniuses, but the gap between ability and achievement is substantial. Lack of focus, motivation, direction, desire, for all but the immediate. 
Sue, I could write a book filled with episodes like yours. Volumes if I collected such anecdotes from people I know. Both of my sons who were top athletes in their schools failed PE. Always wondered who would have to take summer school PE. Guess I found out. And one year, a top athlete (Olympic trials finalist) could not compete in the state semi finals because she did not turn in her art project and failed art, rendering her ineligible to compete. Her team did not place in part because of her absence. It was the buzz of the event, let me tell you, and even made a mention in the paper. It happens more than you might think. 
I think in our family, it became such an issue, that the dynamics and atmosphere became dysfunctional. Yes, it was their behaviour which was wrong that caused the problem, but my reactions were and are what drive it even further down the dysfunctional path. Can’t change them, though ya gotta keep letting them know, but you can change your behaviour which may make things better. I only pray that these bright boys wake up and become the contributers to society that they are capable of being.

sueinphilly · January 9, 2007, 6:00am

WOW, you are making me feel so much better with your stories of dysfunction!!! I honestly don’t know enough people in this world and have never met anyone else like my son.

When he was tested for ADHD in preschool (behavior issues- won’t sit down and shut up), they told me that he had an IQ in the 140’s. I had no idea what I was in for!

I so wished I could have parented someone like the person I was as a youth. I wasn’t allowed to close the door to my room and my dad taped my phone conversations for several years. If GPS had existed back then, they would have used it. I would have been beaten if I acted like my son does.

thanks again for the encouragement

calmom · January 9, 2007, 7:04am

Sue, it sounds to me like your own parents were so controlling that you have a distorted idea of what “normal” interaction is between a parent and teens – if you won’t get counseling for yourself, will you at least get some books about the childrearing issues faced in these years? It seems to me that you want a level of compliance that would be unusual for any teenage boy, and very unlikely for a kid with an IQ of 140. (Gifted kids tend to be independent thinkers). I could top just about every one of the stories you have about your son with stories about my kids… except that when my son would make the sort of comments you described, I delighted in them. I mean, the stories that you relay from his childhood as complaints are part of my personal archive of "wasn’t it cute when he said… " type of stories. Sometimes teachers would call upset about things and it was all I could do to keep from laughing out loud on the phone – it’s not that I didn’t want my kid to behave well in public, it’s just that some of the things they were upset about were so ridiculous!

I agree with NSM – my first impulse when I read about the oriental rug was to simply think that you should roll up the rug and take it out of his room. Why make it into a battle of wills? Put the rug away for now, and it will be in great condition next year when your son is no longer living at home.

You cannot control another person, but you can control the way you respond to that person. I can’t tell whether you are just venting here, or whether you are spending a lot of time at home in conflict with your son over the same thing, again and again… but if it’s the latter, then the key to changing the pattern is to change the way YOU act and respond… because again, you only have control over yourself. It’s not a matter of which person is right, it’s a matter of deciding for yourself whether the relationship is going to be defined as a battle for control, or as an effort to reach mutual understanding.

Your son is 17. He will turn 18 no matter what you do. You said: "Yes, I do want some form of control. I should have the last word. You are not going to win this battle - he is, and he will have the last word. I think, from what you say, that word might very well be “goodbye”. Which is pretty much what you said to your own parents when you were 19, right?

The bottom line is that the more you fight for control, the more you are adding fuel to the fire and pushing your son away. If you want to change the relationship, then you will need to take the first step – and I think the very first step is to stop looking at the relationship as being a battle for control. (And if you do want control - then taking simple steps like removing the rug are much more effective than debating about his habits – you’ll protect the rug and eliminate his power to do damage to it that way. By arguing and leaving the rug in place, you are simply leaving him with the power to continue to vex & annoy.)

bethievt · January 9, 2007, 8:07am

When my son was in first grade, he used to cover his ears when the teacher was giving repetitive instructions or telling him something he’d known for years. The teacher was (understandably) upset and I did have the “mom talk” with him a few times, but I did understand his behavior and tried to convey that without condoning it. His intelligence was being insulted, all challenge was being removed from his day and he didn’t have the maturity to address his feelings more appropriately. I’ve often thought I should have homeschooled him for first and second grade, but it’s water under the bridge and he did learn something about dealing with people.

sue

You’ve got a gifted kid. Chances are, you’re gifted too. This does not make life easier for people. On the contrary, usually it makes things harder. However, I hope he’ll pull himself together and complete some apps to colleges you can afford. The challenging, stimulating environment of a good college or U, the freedom to make his own choices (and some will be mistakes) and profs who don’t have to put up with his bs (and won’t) could be a great combination for him. No quarantees, of course, because it all depends on him.

sueinphilly · January 9, 2007, 10:51am

The rug is in the basement. He wants the rug to stay, the floor can be cold.

It’s just so hard having someone never do anything you ask of them. Is it so wrong to have wanted him to take off the school uniform (grades 5-8) when he came home? No I didn’t say something everyday for 4 years. I gave up.

He has been independent since birth. And never once would do something I asked, just because I asked, out of respect.

It’s not a 24 hour battle, but with all these deadlines and forms, it has NOT been easy. Deadline doesn’t mean, don’t do it until that day!

Yesterday he came home at 3 pm. At 8:30pm he said he was going out to get a posterboard and a color cartridge for the printer. I already had both of those things in the house (Me = prepared, He = last minute person). What if he really needed those things and couldn’t find them and assignment is due today. Yes, I know, he wouldn’t have had it done.

I think if he hears me say “failing to plan is planning to fail” one more time, he will explode. I don’t want to change him. I just want to show him ways to make his life easier.

He submitted his application to West Chester (and hopefully gets the counselor to send the last form and transcript sent today).

cptofthehouse · January 9, 2007, 10:52am

A gifted kid, precocious kid–means little if they grow up not learning the disciplines needed to get through life. Things like organization, motivation, efficiency, keeping deadlines, keeping files, keeping a calendar, keeping track of expenses, keeping track of necessary things to do, become increasingly important as kids approach adulthood. It isn’t just the IQ anymore. Sometimes these kids don’t learn to do the tedious necessary things because they can do it on the fly when they are young, too often depending on their memories and quick thinking skills. Well, the party is over when you hit adulthood, as those skills are not as important as the disciplinary ones. Also as you get older, people do not drop opportunities in your lap. Smart, talented children get so much in the way of opportunities, not just from their parents who are bending over backwards looking for things for their gifted kids, but from programs and teachers, etc. Everyone loves a precocious child. But children grow up and you don’t call adults precocious. That it where many problems result. No one cuts you a break because you have ADD or emotional or mood issues. You gotta figure it out and suck it down. Tough for a kid who has had things catered to him because he was such a delight to teach and watching the brain power and talent was so rewarding. Sue is right to be exasperated and concerned. But parental frustration does not do anything to solve this problem, but causes immense stress in the parent and brings more dysfunction to the family. Tough to live in a home where parent and child are always upset with each other. That’s where the counseling can help. Since he is such a smart, young man, it is hopeful that he will figure out that the way he is living his life is not going to work in the next phase. Mom’s income isn’t going to cover the huge expenses that will be coming his way; it’s not like it’s $20 to upgrade. Also Mom is not going to be there to remind and intervene and help with shortcomings. Too many times, I am the one who thinks up solutions and avenues for my kids while they are here. And all parents tend to do this. Not a problem, unless the kid becomes dependent on this and stops thinking himself. 
For many young men, it takes a long time for this to sink in, and longer for them to figure it out. If they’ve spent 18-21 years of their life with a personal slavegirl (Mom) on call, it’s going to be tough going cold turkey without her, and tougher learning all the skills she has, especially if she’s proficient. But Mama ain’t gonna be around all of his life, most likely, so hopefully he picks it up. Me, I’m thinking of getting one of those Eastern European Bride catalogues, and picking a big, tough woman to kick my son’s backside to expedite his departure from my home.

cptofthehouse · January 9, 2007, 11:01am

Sue, he really should apply to Pitt. THere are a number of very generous scholarships there that he is likely to get, and the school has the course for him. He would get into the Honors College. I doubt that the app is that tedious. Pitt used to take apps late in the process, but doing that often means getting the dregs of the money. I think he will get into some of his choice schools, and the financial aid will work out in most of them, but just in case, it would be a good back up. Pitt has a lot of smart kids going there. 
I think West Chester is also a great back up but it is awfully near by. My cousins went there, loved it, and the town is charming. It is a great school, particularly for business, education majors, and does have decent liberal arts offerings. The only reason I push Pitt is that it is a major university with an extensive graduate school network where advanced students have the sky as their limit. Although Pittsburgh is no NYC or Boston, the Oakland section of the city is very much a college town, and hardlly backwoods. We have a son at UBuffalo, and we have found that there are many advantages to having a city at the kid’s disposal, and a full fledged university. He is lacking nothing there, wheras his friends in some smaller locales, often find it limiting. I am talking about the bright, ADD, high standard, high maintenance type of kid. They seem to always want something hard to get. At least the setting is such where it is all there. And I can tell you that I LOVE having him 7 hours away. The idea that he would be popping back here at his convenience (and not mine) is frightening. Too many of my friends who were initially delighted that their kids chose schools within a hour of home, have had to lay down the laws about coming home and poaching from home resources. Yep, they can abuse anything.

cptofthehouse · January 9, 2007, 11:02am

PS, West Chester is on my third son’s college list. I think it is an overlooked gem of a school. But from the description of your son, he seems to be more of a Pitt type.

If parents pay for their children's college.....

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