If you are going for a "dream school" read this...

Parent Cafe
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<p>These are the rules to live by if you are going for the very top schools:</p>

<p>THIS IS A TEAM EFFORT
If you are “going for it” realize that there is no way a student can realistically accomplish all the necessary paperwork on their own as well as keep up all their grades and extra curriculars that undoubtedly they are scheduled into. This is going to be a team effort.</p>

<p>ONE IN TWENTY
Start the chant…1 in 20…1 in 20… Make it real, if I knew I only had a 1 in 20 chance of dying I would still get on the plane… if I knew I only had a 1 in 20 chance of getting pregnant I would have had sex… </p>

<p>OVER INSURE YOUR STUDENT
In the event of an accident or a fire it is always a wonderful surprise to find that you are even better insured than you knew. “Back-up” and “extra” schools are emotional and financial insurance. Don’t let yourself get “tired” and drop those extras. Assign a member of your team to the job of “insurance”. </p>

<p>BE PREPARED TO PAY
If you go to all the effort and work to get your student into a top school be prepared to pay. This is not an ego trip for the parents to be able to brag to their friends about. My son/daughter got into “X top school” but they are going to local MCcollege because we refused to pay for “X”. NOT FAIR!!! Be honest with yourself and your student. Don’t let “bragging rights” cloud your real intent. If you are not going to pay, sssume the college is going to MAKE YOU PAY, then be honest and upfront with everyone…mostly yourself.
Get the sticker shock NOW. The financial “aid” package will come after the acceptance letter. Assume it says we are giving you bus fare.</p>

<p>YOUR STUDENT ONLY HAS A 1 in 20 CHANCE
If your student is NOT a SURE bet into the very top schools (you know if you have a “sure bet” because those schools are recruiting your student), then your students odds are probably similiar to what we estimated our sons to be …about 1 in 20. Repeat those odds over and over aloud to EVERYONE! “He/she has a 1 in 20 shot. We are rolling the dice. We are giving it a shot.” In the heat of the moment, the emotion and the desire of “the dream”. It is easy to fool yourself into thinking, like the smoker in regards to cancer, we will beat the odds.</p>

<p>OUR SON APPLIED TO 16 COLLEGES
My son is a freshman this year at Northwestern University. He was a National Merit Finalist, 1550 SAT, 34 ACT, Valdictorian of his class, lots of APs, great recs, special musical talent, and a balanced resume. Northwestern was not his “dream school”, Yale was. He was waitlisted at Yale and spent the entire summer dealing with his disappointment and feeling of rejection. His senior year was spent from beginning to end working and worrying about college, filling out applications, visiting, working on essays, trying to raise certain test scores etc etc etc. I have read with interest the stories of students who got in no where. That could have been our son. </p>

<p>This is what we did. Our son applied to 16 colleges, he applied to Yale early action and was deferred. He applied to four “at the top”: Harvard, Princeton, Stanford and Yale (which we estimated he had a 1 in 20 shot). He applied to 8 “just off the top”: Brown,University of Chicago, Penn, Rice, Cornell, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Washington University (this group we estimated 50/50). He applied to Case Western, Carnegie Mellon, University of Illinois, and Illinois Wesleyan. (This group we estimated 100% chance.) Statistically things fell just where we predicted. In the 1 of 20 group he was denied at all but Yale, where he was waitlisted. In the 50/50 group he was accepted by 4 of the 8, and waitlisted by the others. He was accepted by all four of the 100% group. </p>

<p>16 COLLEGE APPLICATIONS WERE NOT OVER THE TOP
My son was so grateful in the end that we had done what we did in the application process. He said, “Mom I may be having a big fall, but I have a great cushion on which to land.” In the end he was accepted by 8, waitlisted by 5, and denied by 3 of the schools. He was not called off the waitlist by any school. He had only applied to Cornell and Northwestern because they were schools his grandparents had attended. If he had applied to only 8 schools instead of 16, he could have very easily ended up selecting the “wrong” 8 and be working at developing gap year plans. All the acceptances also helped take some of the sting out of the rejections.</p>

<p>At the time, our friends, family, our son, and his high school thought we were nuts for having him apply to 16 schools. It was time consuming, expensive and exhausting to accomplish that many applications and have them done well. I do not regret giving our son the “shot” at the top schools. I am still a big fan of Harvard and Yale. They are worth the money. It is the same money to attend Northwestern, and while he is going to have a tremendous college experience, it is not Harvard or Yale.</p>

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<p>Thanks, very insightful comments. Only one comment - you are wrong about Harvard and Yale. A Harvard undergraduate education is a joke - classes are taught by graduate students. And Harvard students, according to a recent poll, arent’ very happy. Yes, interesting group of classmates of Harvard but probably just as interesting at Northwestern without as many psychos. As for Yale, where I went to grad school, have you ever been to New Haven? And do you really want your son to graduate from the same school that graduated Howard Dean?? I survived two years in New Haven - but not my idea of a fun place. I’m sure your son will never regret going to Northwestern - and you should forget about ever discussing his Yale waitlist.</p>

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<p>If I knew I had a 1 in 20 chance of getting pregnant, I would not be having any sex, thank you! :eek:</p>

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<p>I’m bothered by the fact that in order to be a dream school it has to be a top school :p</p>

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<p>Sorry if my example offended you. I guess it is all personal choice. If I had known I only had a one in twenty chance of getting pregnant, I would have had sex.</p>

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<p>Roseland:
You need to learn to say “Boooooo” next time you drive past New Haven on I-95. That’s what we do. We hate Yale and Harvard now, and so should you. Northwestern is a great place!</p>

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<p>Roseland:</p>

<p>Not offended, just have three kids and that is enough for me. The thought of a 1 in 20 chance made me laugh and gulp when I read your post!</p>

<p>Your post should be attached to the famous Andison post, same kind of issue as you. It is quite possible many may feel 16 is over the top or too much, but hey, you only live once and if you want to go for it, you are right, the student really needs to really cover their bases.</p>

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<p>Roseland–very insightful and honest. I think your S has a great chance of being happy at NW, and hope that whatever you feel inside, you are cheerleading for it with all your might with him.</p>

<p>My D’s HS friend’s “dream school” was Columbia; she was turned down by or waitlisted by them, Penn, UNC, and UVA. She was accepted only by Northwestern and Drew university. She eventually got off the UVA waitlist, but decided in the end at NW, which worked out very well.</p>

<p>I think the point you make, that 16 wasn’t too many for a top student wanting signicant choices, goes against conventional wisdom here, but I think it can be a very smart strategy. CV will tell you you can’t do the applications right if they’re too many; I think that’s an individual choice–you can send off 16 hasty, nonfocused apps, or you can understand the pitfall and send off 16 well-done ones, and like you said; if you’d done only 4 of the second group, he might have picked the wrong four. It’s definitely and individual and viable path.</p>

<p>I hope your S has much success and happiness at NW–by all accounts, a great school.</p>

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<p>roseland~</p>

<p>Having gone through a very similar process with my son last year, I very much agree with your post. My son was rejected by the two super elites that he applied to last year, Yale and Stanford. Fortunately for him, he was accepted to his “dream school” which was Duke. He is a very happy freshman there this year. I think you had the situation perfectly analyzed and that you “insured” him in the best way possible. Northwestern is an awesome school! I wish him the happiest of college years there and the success that he so richly deserves. ~berurah</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Is that “you” as in parents, or “you” as in students?</p>

<p>You know what? Dreams are different for different people.</p>

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<p>I appreciate all the positive Northwestern support. So far, and it is still very early, he is having a great experience. </p>

<p>My comments about Yale and Harvard were because I think that it is important for our family that we guard against “sour grapes”. All the people we met on our journey as we visited Harvard and Yale were tremendous people. All the students we know from our high school who are attending either of those schools are wonderful people. Not only are they very bright, they are exceptionally nice people with special talents. </p>

<p>I have been trying to help my son embrace his experience at Northwestern. More than anything else we want him to love his college choice. For him it is much like being in love. He fell in love with Yale, she turned him down. Now he is trying to “fall in love with Northwestern”. In some way it might be easier if you knew your first love was “unworthy”, but instead I have tried to help him see that sometimes it is worth really looking at the one who loves you! Maybe they see something in you that even you had not seen in yourself. </p>

<p>You are all probably right that Harvard and Yale are overrated, but I am not ashamed to admit that I cried on our visit to Harvard. It is a national treasure and I am honored that my son was a contender for admission. </p>

<p>I will also add that our journey took us to many many colleges that took my breath away. MIT was a magnificient place, not the place for my son, but I am so proud to know our country has a place like MIT. I could go on and on because I came away from our travels with a real sense that I had never had before of how truly blessed we are as a nation. Any one of the schools my son applied to would have been outstanding choices. Even the local small liberal arts college brought to the table some benefits unavailable anywhere else. I ended up feeling sad he couldn’t go to all of them.</p>

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<p>

I think there’s a country-western song in that. :)</p>

<p>

Roseland, you’re more in need of “Booooo Therapy” than I had originally thought. It’s a Philadelphia tradition, just watch a replay of the first Eagles game this year to get the idea. You’ll feel much better, it will help you get into the NW groove, and don’t forget----there’s always grad school.

Now that’s a feeling many of us can identify with. :)</p>

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</p>

<p>Wow, that’s a little presumptive–why do we always assign unworthy feelings to everyone else here? She said it’s her kid’s dream school, let’s not get all holier than thou on a new poster.</p>

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<p>Agree with MIT comment - a real national treasure and the first university to have an ROTC program. Harvard, your great national treasure, doesn’t permit ROTC. So when the Islamofacists are at the gate, let’s hope there aren’t too many Harvard grads around (or will they be cheering them on?).</p>

<p>Anyway, school is what the student makes of it. One can (easily) waste four years at Harvard or have a fantastic experience at a good State University.</p>

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<p>roseland - thank you for your post. It was very honest. You do a great job of confessing your disappointment without immediately moving to a “who needs them anyway” rant, and also seem to be prepared to help your son benefit from and enjoy his years at Northwestern. Don’t forget what a fantastic city Chicago is. Only New York to my mind is more of a real city in the US than Chicago and BTW the theater there is world class. IMHO.</p>

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<p>Chief,
No ROTC at Harvard, but the HLS has just seen the light and will allow recruitment there in exchange for a continuance of huge federal $. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=508536[/url]”>http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=508536&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Roseland: Northwestern is a great school. Give him a bit of time. By Parents’ Weekend, he won’t be able to imagine being anywhere else. </p>

<p>Chief6:
My S has just started at Harvard. Two of his courses have TFs, but they do not teach. They lead sections/labs and correct problem sets. The instructors are stars in their fields and have received teaching awards (one of them just last year). The other classes are small (one has a cap of 12).
No ROTC at Harvard. There are, however, Harvard students in ROTC; they go to MIT for their exercises.</p>

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<p>Marite: </p>

<p>I wish your son well at Harvard. Happy to hear that Harvard permits its students leave the Yard for the ROTC classes.</p>

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<p>Interesting interpretations of “dream school.” As roseland continued, “…very top schools.” Perhaps a more appropriate adjective at the beginning would have been “ideal reach” to avoid some of the controversy. For some of D’s friends, dream schools included Skidmore, University of Rochester, University of Iowa, and George Washington. They wouldn’t be considered reaches for some, but they were considered ideal by these applicants.</p>

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<p>(Ideal reach, I like that term, Little Mother). </p>

<p>My son had nearly identical stats to Roseland’s S, but we approached the application process a little differently. Frankly 16 schools would have made by head spin around and fly off at some point. I couldn’t have done it (the visits and applications and mailings!), and my hat is off to you, Roseland for that kind of dedication. </p>

<p>What we did:</p>

<p>We identified ideal-safety schools first (in his case, George Washington, Rochester and Davis) then built the list upward from there with two ideal-matches (Berkeley and UChicago) and two ideal-reaches (Yale and Harvard). He applied early to Chicago and was accepted, which caused him to drop Rochester from the list; it was too late to drop UC Davis. So he applied to six schools total, knowing he would be happy at any of them and knowing he had one already in hand in December. By April, he got the news. 4 acceptances at the safeties and matches and two waitlists at Harvard and Yale, one of which he (for the heck of it) accepted a spot on but which ultimately didn’t come through in June. Didn’t matter because he was already sold on Berkeley by that time, having visited in April. I don’t think he even blinked when the final rejection from Harvard came.</p>

<p>Every family/kid is different, but this minimalist approach worked for us because S truly could have been happy at GW (for which he ended up turning down $100,000 in merit scholarships). We (H and I) had searched high and low for safety schools that had what he liked, and that took a lot of pressure off the rest of the journey. Plus, having the match-school acceptance in December was a lifesaver for my stress levels. I knew he was in somewhere.</p>