<p>I encourage folks to follow the thread “500,000 in Los Angeles Rally” I started for additional comments. Pro and against.</p>
<p>Excellent post, Yulsie. You did not mention putting up a fence. Do you think that would be a good or bad idea?</p>
<p>razorsharp, I spent a few hours one night with a lone Border Patrol agent at the levee in San Ysidro, which was at that time the epicenter of the nightly flight over the border, where 40% of illegal apprehensions take place. He was the only agent for 1/4 mile in either direction. After dark, hundreds of crossers lined up on the Tiajuana side of the tall chain link fence, waiting for the signal to storm the ramparts. He said that typically they included criminals, pimps, sex workers, and drug dealers, as well as pregnant women and ordinary folks. The agent told me that in his first week on the job, it really bothered him that he couldn’t catch everyone who came over - the rules were (presumably still are) that you have to put your hands on them, no weapons, no bolos, no aids. He said that to keep his sanity, since he was a runner, he decided to look at his nightly shift as a good opportunity to exercise. He had an unofficial assistant, a little mongrel dog. He fed the dog every night, it hung around with him and barked when the crossers made their move.</p>
<p>The fence has been improved since then and there are more agents (don’t know if the BP officially copped on to the usefulness of canine companions). Haven’t kept up with the levee situation, so I can’t tell you if it is still a joke or not. When I went out in the 4WD vehicle in the hills to the east with another agent, there were many small groups of 2-5 people moving in the shadows - the chain link fences were knocked down every night, repaired, and knocked down again.</p>
<p>Remember the Coneheads? The INS agent dreamed up rigging explosive charges for the border. Short of using land mines or establishing a Berlin Wall clone (complete with armed guards) the press of people is so great I don’t think any fence would work well enough to justify the cost. Even when the BP apprehends an illegal, the big problem then becomes certain identification. Iris scanning, fingerprinting, and other methods are in use, but the volume is so high and the desire to cross so great that when the BP identifies and deports someone, they are right back within a few days. Agents described the level of illegal crossings as “a tide,” and the then-Commissioner called it “a gaping wound.”</p>
<p>Permanent visible identification would be a great help to law enforcement, but then we get into privacy issues - sure, an implanted chip or a tattoo (eeek!) on an apprehended illegal crosser would make it much easier to protect the border, but as I think most of the US still agrees, it wouldn’t stop with illegal aliens.</p>
<p>I will say that it certainly seemed to me that the BP agents were doing a great job, to the limit of their available resources. I made the mistake of taking a bus from San Diego to LA - some pretty rough characters on that bus - I kept my nose buried in a book. The bus was flagged down by an agent, who got on and selected three Mexicans for questioning. He spoke first in Spanish, then in English “Where are you from?” “LA” “What high school did you go to?” “LA High School” “Which LA High School?” (No response). “Come senior, let’s go.” He then took the man and his companions to the detention center. Very efficient!</p>
<p>Here’s a few links - a quick tour of the magnitude of the problem</p>
<p><a href=“http://sprawlmagazine.com/articles/7-11-05border.html[/url]”>http://sprawlmagazine.com/articles/7-11-05border.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/[/url]”>http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/</a></p>
<p>Did anyone read Paul Krugman today? He had a superb article on immigration, with some excellent points that can be viewed in a completely un-partisan way.</p>
<p>Krugman not partisan?? I’ll have to see that to believe it.</p>
<p>Allmusic, can you PM me the entire article? I’m not a New YOrk Times subscriber</p>
<p>tenisghs, I just PMed you the article.</p>
<p>Paul Krugman is probably the most prominent liberal economist in the country, and he even opposes (or wants to reduce) illegal immigration. As an economist, he knows that illegal immigrants drive down wages for the most disadvantaged native-born populations in the country: women, minorities, and rural communities. I paste his entire editoral (because you need a subscription to view it) below: </p>
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<p>I have just one question–why are these jobs so attractive to poor illegals and not even considered by inner-city poor.?</p>
<p>simba - if you prosecute the ‘conservative Republicans’ who hire illegal immigrants, what do you propose to do with the ‘liberal Democrats’ who want to register them for the vote? I seriously do not believe this is an issue that falls clearly along ‘party’ lines. (aaargh…is it necessary to politicize every little thing??)
…
I am Rio Grande Valley born; my family has lived in the Valley for generations. In Texas, we are pragmatic. Most of us recognize that illegal immigrants are a valuable sector in our economy and in turn we do pay a lot to provide social services. I don’t agree with every thing that comes out of the President’s mouth, but what is wrong with ‘guest worker’ status? Those who complain about providing for illegal immigrants should be thrilled at the idea of being able to document and tax these individuals.</p>
<p>Maybe because employers do not hire the inner-city poor? They cannot exploit citizens; they can exploit undocumented workers.</p>
<p>Maybe because the illegals can use the money and send it back to their families in another country, where American money has a lot of value?</p>
<p>Maybe because the illegals are willing to work more for less wages? Americans cannot survive on $3-5/hour.</p>
<p>I am thrilled with the idea (This is the only thing I agree with GWB).</p>
<p>Taxing these individual may also help with the budget and SS.</p>
<p>I doubt reason #1 is a large part.
Reason #2 is true but they also have to live here in the US economy while earning to have anything to send home.
I think lots of the jobs like building framing and landscaping where I see many (mostly) Mexicans pay over $6.00 an hour. If they can survive on that and send $$$ home where is the disconnect?</p>
<p>Barrons, so many jobs that used to be available for native workers have become unofficial “Latino-only” positions. Go to heavily-populated Hispanic states and notice which jobs Latino workers do that native workers used to do over twenty years ago. Employers simply won’t hire native workers if they can get a bargain with undocumented workers or folks of the same ethnic group.</p>
<p>It’s no “bargain”. They work harder. The send the money back home to support their families. </p>
<p>As for health care costs? Those come from the fact that corporations won’t pay for health care - and it doesn’t matter whether the workers are “natives”, legals, or undocumenteds - and the reality that while undocumenteds pay into workers comp, they can almost never collect on it.</p>
<p>I don’t think many of these workers–at least outside Cali-- are working for large companies. Most work for small construction and landscaping firms that probably don’t pay benefits to anyone on staff. I watch lots of home type shows and they can be in Minnesota or Atlanta or NJ–most of the workers are Hispanic. It’s almost funny.</p>
<p>I tend to agree with Mini–they get hired because they are known to work hard.</p>
<p>my H is Irish, there are a number of illegal irish here, working hard</p>
<p>are they all getting sent home too? and what about children, if you are born here, you are an american, so will they seperate families</p>
<p>what about elderly that are here, what about those that came for asylum but were denied so came in illegally</p>
<p>this is a really big issue, with people involved, i hate the word 'illegals", these are human beings</p>
<p>and taxing, i would think that if we taxed corporations and mad ethem pay what they should, we wouldn’t have the deficit we do</p>
<p>and now, our government is borrowing more from SS fund to fund the war, but hey, lets blame the illegal workers who are a backbone to our country and round em up, put them in detention until we can send 11million people “home”</p>
<p>great plan</p>
<p>Why do people here assume that American workers cannot work hard? That is the greatest myth in the world. American citizens, regardless of where they come from, will NOT work for wages that are poverty-level. This is why we have LABOR UNIONS. Corporations hire undocumented workers so that they can avoid minimum wage requirements and so that they don’t have to pay Americans what they truly deserve: a better quality of life. Illegal immigrants, no matter how “hard” they work, take away jobs from American citizens. The most disadvantaged populations in the United States are poor women, minorities (especially African Americans), and rural communities.</p>
<p>I just read that things are so good in Ireland now many are moving back and the flow here is down to nothing.</p>
<p>If you are not willing to work for low wages you might just stay in poverty. I put myself through school with mostly low-paying non-union jobs. Working leads to better jobs. You don’t get to start at the top.</p>
<p>Hey, I live in Houston, and a few days ago, we had a large citywide protest in support of the DREAM Act. Since this is primarily a college admissions forum, I was wondering what y’alls views were on this act?</p>