Illegal Immigrants in USA

Parent Cafe
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<p>America needs to send a strong and bold message that we do not tolerate illegal immigration. Yes, they provide a cheap source of labor, but their presence also goes against the U.S. Constitution. Illegal immigrants, particularly Mexicans, cannot be made exceptions against the law when other international immigrants file legally to relocate temporarily to this country on work visas and to reside as American permanent aliens. It is not fair. Americans work too hard in a bad economy to subsidize government services and programs to folks who do not belong here legally. Illegal immigrants should try to rebuild the (domestic) economy of their nations.</p>

<p>*The demonstrators oppose legislation passed by the U.S. House that would make it a felony to be in the U.S. illegally. It also would impose new penalties on employers who hire illegal immigrants, require churches to check the legal status of parishioners before helping them and erect fences along one-third of the U.S.-Mexican border.</p>

<p>“I think it’s just inhumane,” said Elger Aloy of Riverside, a 26-year-old premed student who was pushing his 8-month-old son in a stroller at the Los Angeles march. “Everybody deserves the right to a better life.” *</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/25/immigration.rallies.ap/index.html[/url]”>http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/25/immigration.rallies.ap/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Why don’t the complaining illegals just do what’s necessary to become legal? I don’t see any discussions about this on the news; they just show the demonstrations. I can’t even fathom being in a foreign country illegally and then having the gall to demonstrate. Talking about “in your face” rebellion.</p>

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<p>can you think of life here without the illegals? They are here because there are empolyers who hire them - who are mostly conservative republicans.</p>

<p>If you want to stop the tide, procecute and harshly punish those who hire them.</p>

<p>And then be ready to pay $5 for a avacado. Don’t forget they do subsidize our lifestyle.</p>

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<p>There ya go. Simba said it.</p>

<p>Can’t have it both ways. Reason clothing and electronics are so cheap now is because they are manufactured in sweat shops and factories with unsafe conditions in places like Bangladesh. We’ve lost American jobs, outourced to China and India and beyond, and in return, we pay lower prices. China holds our monumental debt, and we pay peants for trinkets at Wal-mart that have all been manufactured in China.</p>

<p>People seem to want lower prices AND all jobs to Americans. Fact is, the illegal immigrants and outsourced jobs are the reason prices are what they are on goods (not true for energy, and certainly not health care!).</p>

<p>The people screaming about illegals are the very same ones who love their Wal-Mart and the cheapie prices there.</p>

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<p>

We have millions of individuals in our inner cities who are wasting away for lack of work. Illegals take their jobs by keeping the market rate for unskilled labor extremely low. (I hear people say illegals do the jobs Americans won’t do; but that is a false statement. Americans won’t do those jobs at such a low wage.) Without illegals we would see higher wages and greater work opportunties for low income people, especially those in our inner cities. Although it is impossible to calculate precisely, any minor increase in food prices would be offset by increases in productivity among those in the inner city who may have good jobs for the first time in their lives. There are other benefits as well. A reduction in crime in the inner cities would result in a significant wealth increase in those areas. If you don’t belive me, just look at the wealth creation in NYC once the former mayor there allowed police to be police.</p>

<p>If you believe the disparity between rich and poor is a problem, then you should oppose illegal immigration. </p>

<p>If you are a high-tech workers and dislike seeing your job outsourced to India or your job being performed in American by someone with an HB-1 visa, then you would know what it is like to be an unskilled American in the inner city.</p>

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<p>Razorsharp stated it best. Thank you.</p>

<p>Illegal is illegal. I don’t care “why” they come to America. Most legal immigrants relocate to America for a “better quality of life.” But when you’re in this country illegally and expect the government to grant you amnesty without going through the proper legal means, I have no sympathy for you. We need stricter immigration policies.</p>

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<p>I live in NYC. I know lots of illegal aliens and even more people I suspect are illegal, but would never dream of asking point blank. LOTS of them came here as young children, brought by their parents. They grew up here and can’t even remember their “homeland.” The smartest kids at CUNY (City U. Of NY) are illegals. They can’t get federal financial aid so they go to CUNY because it’s cheap. </p>

<p>One such kid was profiled in NY Times Sunday Magazine a few years ago. He went to some top boarding school. He didn’t even know he was illegal until he applied to college. His grandparents were legal. When his home country in Africa disrupted in civil war, his parents brought him to the US to stay with his grandparents–he was less than a year–and then went back. They were killed in the civil war. His grandparents just kept him and raised him. In the circumstances—they had no way of getting the required documents to prove the family relationships from a nation that just wasn’t functioning–they just said nothing and raised him. He was a smart kid, got picked up by Prep for Prep, went to boarding school, was something like second in his class, tried to apply for college, and found out he was in the US illegally. He came when he was something like 3 months old. The Board of Trustees at the boarding school stepped in and raised the money for him to go to college–thus by-passing financial aid forms, which are the usual stumbling block. They also gave him free legal representation, but it was far from an easy road. I forget the specifics, but the hearings took years. </p>

<p>It’s really not that unusual. When one of my kids went on a school trip to Montreal during elementary school, several kids wouldn’t go. When the teacher tried to intevene to convince the parents to allow the kids to go, it came out that the kids were illegal and the families were concerned that they’d never get back from Canada. </p>

<p>Many of these kids are great kids. They are smart, hard-working, ambitious. The decision to come here illegally wasn’t one they made themselves. Many have gone to American schools and aren’t even literate in their native languages. Some could regularize their status, but doing so might bring their parents’ situation to light and end in deporting them–and in some cases, many members of large extended families.</p>

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<p>In other words, Joni, you are saying the ends justify the means. What you have omitted is a dicussion of all the illegal immigants who have committed murders, rapes, etc. and fill our prisons. The point is that someone has to decide who can come into this county and who cannot. The U.S. government should make that decision, not the people you describe regardless of how talented and capable they may become. Possibly their talents could have greatly helped the countries from which they came.</p>

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<p>What about all the people who have come here by LEGAL means and waited years and years to become US citizens? How do they feel about the millions and millions of illegal immigrants cutting in line?</p>

<p>I have a problem with a group of people who come here ILLEGALLY and then raise the Mexican flag while complaining about our country and demanding social services and breaks on college tuition. It is not fair to those who have come here legally.</p>

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<p>My parents were sponsored to US after WWII by an aunt. Everything was set, and we even had our papers finalized when word came that my aunt had died. We could still have come, knowing no one, but my father felt it was not morally the way to do things. He said you had to do things the right way. He told the authorities, and our papers were taken away. He applied to Canada, which was taking refugees without sponsors, but my mother and I had to stay behind until my dad had a job and an apartment. Not an easy task, considering we had a curtained off room for the 3 of us in a barrack in a displaced person’s (refugee) camp. A couple months afterward, dad fulfilled all the requirements, and my mom and I followed him to Canada. We lived there for 5 years until a cousin sponsored us into the US. Was it hard? Very. They had to sell everything they had, not once, but three times for very little money, and start all over. It was difficult during the Cold War to do this after fleeing from a Communist country. Many people were wary about hiring my parents. Yet, my parents struggled but they did it. And they did it honestly, honorably and within the law. Whatever happened to working within the system? Whatever happened to honesty, ethics and morals? To the day he died, my dad praised the US and said we needed to live a life that would make it proud and pay it back for all the wonderful things it had offered us. Even legal immigration isn’t easy. Quite frankly, I can’t think of another country that would put up with illegal immigration the way we do.</p>

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<p>Get to the source…illegal immigration is sanctioned by this administration. Our president is pushing for a new immigration law with a "guest worker’ program, that basically will allow legal status — short of citizenship — for some of the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants in the United States.</p>

<p>“As we debate the immigration issue, we must remember there are hardworking individuals, doing jobs that Americans will not do, who are contributing to the economic vitality of our country,” Bush said in his weekly radio address.</p>

<p><a href=“http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060325/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush;_ylt=AnKbcbUxIHrXXNN4QN88kMGs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OXIzMDMzBHNlYwM3MDM-[/url]”>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060325/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush;_ylt=AnKbcbUxIHrXXNN4QN88kMGs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OXIzMDMzBHNlYwM3MDM-&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Out economoy is built on immigartion. I couldn’t imagine a better example of trying to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. We should have a border fence to keep criminals out and an immigation policy that allows our economy to grow.</p>

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<p>The US will always have illegal immigrants. Pakistan cannot protect it’s borders and neither can the US. Too rugged, too long.</p>

<p>As for the mythical inner city millions who need jobs…for the past seven or eight years, the US has had historically high employment rates, hovering around 5% unemployed. Plus, immigrants are willing to do jobs that Americans are not; fruit pickers, maids, gardeners, etc…They are willing to work long long low wage hours that Americans are not. This willingness, perhaps, can be viewed as payment in kind in lieu of proper taxes.</p>

<p>In any event, the current ‘wink, wink, nod, nod’ immigration policies are likely to continue.</p>

<p>The flip side is also a payment in kind. Goods are ridiculously inexpensive in the US. That era will naturally expire when the Chinese middle class begins to get pay rises, say five to ten years from now. When the Chinese middle class can afford to buy non-essential items, the rest of the world will have to pay more for those items, including Americans.</p>

<p>That will not be a bad thing. Americans are obsessed with buying goods of one kind or another, something I didn’t realize until I moved to another country for the second time in my life. Even when I visit, American consumerism takes over my brain space and my social space–in a way that doesn’t happen in less consumer oriented societies.</p>

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<p>I totally agree that goods are ridiculously inexpensive in the US. But the point is, people like these inexpensive goods, and they also don’t like too many immigrants or outsourcing. How hard is seeing that connection?</p>

<p>I also agree about American consumerism. This spending and buying and need for bigger and more is so distinctly American. I don’t know how long it will go on, but there will be a time, perhaps when the Chinese call on our debt, when the oil bourse goes through, when we really do reach peak oil, when all this will change for Americans, and we will need to become a bit more conscious, like people in other countries.</p>

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<p>How many of these millions are willing to relocate from the inner city of an east coast city to rural central California and spend their days picking tomatoes?</p>

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Very few would relocate for $5.15 per hour. If the wage was $10, $15 or more per hour, you would see unemployed people leaving the cities and moving to where work can be found. We have counless numbers of people in the inner cities who are not working and living meaningless lives. They were here first and should be given a chance at fulfillment through work. That won’t happen so long as illegals force downward unskilled wages.</p>

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<p>If these people are so keen to be Americans, why are they waving the Mexican flag?</p>

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<p>I have mixed feelings on immigration issues. I can take various points of view around the circumference, and I won’t pretend that I’ve developed an answer for every problem to my own satisfaction. In that, it appears I have plenty of company, both with posters here and with members of Congress.</p>

<p>I used to consult to the INS (before it separated into two organizations under Homeland Security) and among other activities, I conducted a broad study of IT applications and resources across INS (including Detention & Deportation, Investigations, Fraud, Border Patrol, Asylum, Adjudications, etc.), starting with interviews about the business concerns of the associate and assistant commissioners. Took the Border Patrol tour, went out at night with an agent to observe the levee and other areas of the border where illegals cross, learned how smuggling cases were handled, and so on and so forth. In short, I learned quite a bit (such as that more than 40% of men incarcerated for violent and drug-related crime in the late 1980s were illegals, for instance). </p>

<p>As a result of these experiences with the people on the ground and the summary perspectives of those running the show, I became more conservative in my views on “illegal migration.” This term is more descriptive of the problem than “illegal immigration” because many who come here do not wish to become citizens, they just want the jobs and their bite of the apple. Quite a bit of the money earned gets sent out of the country, tax evasion is rampant (according to Investigations, some cultures believe that they should not have to pay taxes at all, here or elsewhere) In sum, there are many illegal migrants who do not “add lasting value” to the US by their presence, and I do not think that those individuals should be allowed to enter, or if already here, to stay.</p>

<p>My own views have evolved as follows: I think of a “country” as a combination of three factors - a geographic boundary (contiguous or not), a system of government, and a set of natural and financial resources. The US was founded by immigrants, and the “give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses…” principle was both a worthy and compassionate ideal and also necessary for the growth of the country for many years. IMO, that time has passed, and a new paradigm must be developed. The resources of the US are not unlimited. The numbers of the tired and the poor grow every day around the globe. The populace and the government that it elects should recognize these facts. We simply cannot care for every person on the planet, nor should we try to do so. Human suffering is like the grains of sand on the beach - you cannot count the miseries, and you can only do so much to alleviate them - you cannot make an end to human suffering. It is wishful thinking to pretend otherwise. </p>

<p>I don’t think that it is necessary to become as strict as Australia or New Zealand, but I believe it would be useful to place much more stringent limits on the number of unskilled adults we accept AND give more attention to the means to keep others out of the country. I also think that we need to change the rule about citizenship being automatically granted to those who are born here - the Border Patrol agents told me that there were many many women crossing the border in their last month of pregnancy. They had their babies free of charge in a US hospital, the baby was then a citizen, and the mother could immediately go on the dole, then send for her husband. Just one example of the many schemes that some illegal migrants engage in to survive off of the (relative) largess of public assistance in the US. </p>

<p>However - if we turn to the other side of the coin, demand for cheap labor, we find that, as other posters have mentioned, it is the corporations and agribusiness that creates the demand, and we are all complicit in it because we enjoy our current standard of living - their profits, our convenience. We should all be brave enough to face this selfish desire, and the consequences that it entails, and I believe we should honestly feel the shame of it. We may collectively wring our hands about the plight of poor and homeless US citizens, but this government, elected by us, has STILL not increased the minimum wage, and continues to cut resources for the needy. We don’t care effectively for our own citizens, and yet we allow ourselves to be overrun with unskilled illegals. The current administration’s posture is not, in my view, what is best for the US, but once again a perversion of what the founders meant by “for the people” for the purposes of political expediency. </p>

<p>If I were in Congress and proposing legislation about illegal migration and related matters, it would include the following: more strict immigration limits; better tax enforcement; enhanced border controls; more stringent deportation enforcement; beefed up employer sanctions; a higher minimum wage; affordable health care; and an honest leveling with the US populace about the positive and negative consequences - higher prices, less choice of goods, but a more moral and just society, and a higher standard of living for those who are currently exploited. This would, in turn, lower the crime rate and indirectly lower illegal drug use, often the refuge of those who despair. </p>

<p>In addition, I’d advocate that the US put much more pressure on second and third world countries to promote (gasp!) birth control, and allocate dollars to support that. Overpopulation is the often unmentioned root cause of most of these problems. And that leads into the taboo subject of how much harm religion can cause, and…I’ll stop here lest everyone flame me at once.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.equalexchange.com/[/url]”>Fairly Traded Coffee, Chocolate, Tea & Snacks – Equal Exchange;

<p>I would prefer that families beable to find work and a living wage in their home country- that is why I support organizations like the above</p>

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<p>Great post Yulsie. </p>

<p>Article on the impact of illegal migration on the healthcare system:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf[/url]”>http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;