Illegal immigrants.

<p>I know this is a controversial topic, and has been on the news because of the Arizona immigration act. But, what are your views on it? It seems like many Americans hate illegals especially Mexicans. And because of that many Hispanics are confused to be Mexicans because of that. And its not just Hispanics that cross the border that are here illegally, many of them are Asian also. </p>

<p>To me the issue with them coming here is they might take jobs that a poor American can have. And that the employers take advantage of that and give them below minimal wage because they are not citizens. They also don't learn the language which makes it hard for them to further progress and become citizens. Because of this many don't get the "American dream", and give up, but their children are citizens and some don't take advantage of that and wind up being like their parents, not all of them most of them. I covered most of the points, Im sure you guys can come up with others.</p>

<p>Well, I won't really comment upon the average American's perception of illegal immigrants in general. I am of the persuasion that the borders need to be secured, as we must account for a swell in our current population that necessitates the stemming of future flow.</p>

<p>However, I find that the biggest tragedy is that no path toward legalization exists, especially for those who have been here practically all of their lives. When I see things like [url=<a href="http://www.citizenorange.com/orange/2010/07/dream-now-letters-wendy.html#more%5Dthis%5B/url"&gt;http://www.citizenorange.com/orange/2010/07/dream-now-letters-wendy.html#more]this[/url&lt;/a&gt;] posted online, I cannot help but become slightly upset that some, due to no fault of their own, are left up a creek without a paddle - and permanently.</p>

<p>I'm sure that this post will get me attacked, provided that this thread devolves into a series of bathetic, close-the-border-now! posts, but whatevs. :)</p>

<p>It is true that some immigrants may be stealing jobs from "poor" Americans. It is also true that Americans, most of the time, are not seeking the same job as an immigrant -- e.g. an immigrant may be looking for a construction job where his main asset is strength, whereas an American may have more training, and will be looking for a job that requires skills.
On the they-don't-learn-English argument, please back this up with data. The latest census shows that immigrants, more than 95% of the time, learn English. In fact, government-sponsored English classes have become so crowded with immigrants, that Congress resolved to provide more resources to these kind of programs.</p>

<p>^I find it interesting that you posted this:</p>

<p>
[quote]
It is also true that Americans, most of the time, are not seeking the same job as an immigrant -- e.g. an immigrant may be looking for a construction job where his main asset is strength, whereas an American may have more training, and will be looking for a job that requires skills.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>without data, yet said this:</p>

<p>
[quote]
On the they-don't-learn-English argument, please back this up with data.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>A fan of self-contradiction, eh?</p>

<p>Yea that's the common argument with immigrants, but are all of those illegal immigrants.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
To me the issue with them coming here is they might take jobs that a poor American can have.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Like what? Scrubbing toilets?</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
And that the employers take advantage of that and give them below minimal wage because they are not citizens.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>So they should be punished for the fact that they scrub toilets for basically free?</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
Because of this many don't get the "American dream", and give up, but their children are citizens and some don't take advantage of that and wind up being like their parents, not all of them most of them.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Nope. It's because they are illegal, that they can not enjoy the many opportunities of this country, and thus they wind up being like their parents.</p>

<p>I think we should legalize illegals here, and then impose stricter border restrictions. If we legalize people here, that would give then Social Security numbers, a way to track them in case they don't pay taxes or do something illegal. Because right now, these illegals aren't paying taxes, but we have no way of tracking them down because they don't have SS#s. </p>

<p>Plus the revenue that the federal and state can obtain by imposing a fee on the 12 million here is another benefit. Just imagine having each of them pay a 1000 dollar fine for 12 million illegals. That's 12 billion dollars worth of revenue. Of course they don't have to pay up front, they can do installment, but at least you've got a way of tracking them down if they don't pay.</p>

<p>But the reason why many hire illegals is because, they won't have to pay them as much as a citizen. Which is cheaper for them, which in turn keeps the economy running to fill the low paying jobs.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Because right now, these illegals aren't paying taxes, but we have no way of tracking them down because they don't have SS#s.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Incorrect. Many illegal immigrants do have taxes taken out of their paychecks for things like Social Security, yet they receive none of the benefits of these entitlement programs.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Nope. It's because they are illegal, that they can not enjoy the many opportunities of this country, and thus they wind up being like their parents.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, my sentiments exactly. However - and I'm not saying that you yourself did this; this functions more as a caveat to future posters - we should be careful in stating that it is *solely *because of their immigration status that they do not succeed.</p>

<p>
[quote]
But the reason why many hire illegals is because, they won't have to pay them as much as a citizen. Which is cheaper for them, which in turn keeps the economy running to fill the low paying jobs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There is truth in your statement. We need cheap labor if we want to keep the economy running. If not, prices of many everyday goods will increase. For those who want all illegal immigrants expelled, they are exposing us to an unnecessary degree of potential harm due to the rapid removal of so much cheap labor from our industries, some of which rely on it (for instance, agriculture).</p>

<p>Also illegal immigrants pay sales and real estate taxes.</p>

<p>well, mostly because of their status, let me phrase it that way</p>

<p>Yes, many immigrants work under fake SS numbers and thus have taxes deducted from their paychecks that are never claimed.<br>
For those that say they should come here legally, I would agree if there was in fact a reasonable method for them to come here legally. I have spoken with many that wanted to come to this great nation the right way so they could work and make a better life for themselves the way it should be, but had to go through procedures that lasted up to 10 years. For those that do not have the means to survive that long, legal immigration simply isn't an option.
As far as the deportation of all of the people here already seems ridiculous to me seeing as how agriculture is a huge part of the economies of most of the western states.
Just my 2 cents..</p>

<p>I think the most urgent thing to do is to offer a path to legalization to those who are here already.</p>

<p>Well, they're here. No matter how you slice it the results aren't good.</p>

<p>I tend to think that any action is pointless until we have the means to enforce it, which requires a secure border. But if we try to secure the border there will be a stampede to get in before the door closes.</p>

<p>I do think that we should welcome anyone who wants to come here and work: we need that kind of people here. But I think it's ridiculous to have drug wars and crime spilling across our border and to be unable to do anything about it.</p>

<p>kick them all out, go arizona!!!!</p>

<p>Our economy would be crippled if we "kick[ed] them all out".</p>

<p>yea its in great shape now huh? haha</p>

<p>^^^^^ Do that while people are still coming in and you haven't solved anything.</p>

<p>ok, kick them all out, and stop them from coming in</p>

<p>^ I volunteer you to fill the gap nailing shingles in 102 degree weather.</p>