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Threads like this always turn into flame wars, give it a few more pages.</p>
<p>Well, Christcorp: you’re clearly not into that boring old “judge not lest ye be judged” and “glass house” stuff, are you?</p>
<p>I think what we need to do is shut down immigration completely (except maybe those who desperately need it, ie those who are on…oh gosh I forget what it’s called…the visas where they can prove that staying in their current country will cause them to come to harm, because obviously then they need to get out) until we can figure out how to stop illegals. FROM EVERY COUNTRY, not just Mexico. Here’s why:</p>
<p>-If we just exclude Mexico/Central America/South America, they’ll never want to deal with us again. Bad idea.
-We have illegals coming over from Canada too, it’s just that they’re in a smaller number so no one thinks about them.</p>
<p>The only way to stop illegal immigration completely is to completely close our doors for a while, strengthen our borders, and root out all the illegals and deport them. While I am with you, Christcorp, in that they’re all felons, I don’t think excluding just Mexico is the way to go.</p>
<p>Let me think WWJD for those in need, oh yes, take care of them</p>
<p>^Which is why they can get those…are they refugee visas?</p>
<p>If they have a desperate need, that’s different. But they shouldn’t be able to come willy-nilly, that’s how we got into this situation.</p>
<p>I think dke’s warning Cristcorp was from experience as opposed to it being a personal attack, and he’s right; the liberal people on these boards come across as a heck of a lot more closed minded than you’d expect…</p>
<p>“Grace”–what would you do, put a 2000 mile long wall on the Mexican border, complete with barbed wire, dogs, and guards with machine guns? That’s what it took to patrol the Berlin Wall.</p>
<p>And I find your screen name ironic.</p>
<p>(Rediculous articles like this make me wish I could “downvote” them or make them disappear altogether.)</p>
<p>Look; I know how immigration works. Part of the “Yes-No” process is based on the current influx from that country. (We’re talking, legal immigration). So, if you applied from Luxembourg to immigrate, you’d have a much better chance than if you applied from Mexico or a Central American country. Why? Not because the system is prejudice, but because there aren’t that many people from Luxembourg trying to immigrate.</p>
<p>Now, my proposal is to take it one step further and extend it to the illegals. If Mexico and certain Central American countries have TOO many illegal aliens. (yes, they are aliens), then shut down all LEGAL immigration from those countries. I would also shut down tourist visas, work visas, school visas, etc… Force those countries to HELP US address the illegal aliens. Did you know that the country of Mexico even provides a pamphlet on how to most safely illegally cross the border into the United States. Hell, just search for pamphlet mexican illegal immigrants and read it yourself. Now, if we make it that much harder for the LEGAL visitors, then maybe they will put more pressure on their government to help. But currently, the mexican government doesn’t want to help. The less poor people they have in their country, the better it is for their economy. Yes, there are illegals from canada, but not even proportionately comparable.</p>
<p>Kluge, we are talking illegal immigration here. There is none of this “Judge,., Be not Judged” crap. You can rationalize illegal immigration all you want. It has nothing to do with judging. If you are so concerned, why aren’t you down in Mexico making life better for them so they don’t want to leave in the first place? …Just as I thought. Please, don’t go there. I’ve lived on a few of these border towns. I know exactly what’s going on with illegal aliens.</p>
<p>CGM; talking to you openly is never possible. We have already established that in many other posts. You live in the make believe world where no one has to be responsible or accountable for their own actions. Please, don’t give me any of that “What would Jesus do” hypocrisy. I know exactly what he would do. But, if you feel so compelled to “Take Care of Them”, then may I suggest that you start with all the homeless children in our country. Or those who don’t have enough to eat. Or all those in an orphanage. Those in foster homes. When you have 5 adopted kids in your house and are taking care of the poor, then you can try and “Preach” to me what Jesus might do. I already know. Maybe you should learn.</p>
<p>As far as this becoming a flame war, I’m not sure if it’s possible. To be a flame, it would have to be “Personal”. Now, unless some of you posters are illegal aliens, then there wouldn’t be any personal attacks on this subject. Now, if someone wanted to flame the writer of the article for being a typical sensationalist looking to be an opportunist, then I could see attacking them as being a flame.</p>
<p>But it is true that the extremist liberal is very quick to attack other’s rights if they don’t agree with that person. They love freedom of speech. Assuming they like what you say. Try to pray at lunch in school and see where that gets you. So much for freedom of speech. I heard once something that made sense. The difference between an extremist liberal and an extremist conservation was that the extreme conservative loves the sinner but hates the sin. While the extreme liberal loves the sin but hates the sinner. Seems that they will defend any action, word, etc… no matter how bad it is. Unless of course they don’t like it.</p>
<p>Sorry Mommusic. But just because you don’t like something, agree with it, think it’s silly, etc… doesn’t mean you should be allowed to censor it. The problem is; the extremist will try and defend the right for something like this to be posted and expressed, but they will fight those who don’t agree with it to express themselves. Such hypocrites. The same freedom of speech we enjoy has to be available to ALL citizens. Whether we agree with what they say or not. If it isn’t, then this freedom isn’t a freedom. The first time you say something a group doesn’t agree with, they will try and censor you. (Oooops; that’s what the extreme liberals are currently trying to do).</p>
<p>Christcorp. What are you talking about? You can pray at lunch all you want and no one is going to stop you. I myself say a blessing over food. But I don’t force other people to do it, or even suggest they should. Guess that makes me a godless liberal.</p>
<p>May I quote you on the “Judge not…be not judged” crap, as you call it? Gotta remember that one.</p>
<p>We can debate immigration all day, but that doesn’t make the original article any more factual.</p>
<p>The best thing to do with this thread is ignore it and hope it goes to the bottom of the pile.</p>
<p>mommusic-if that’s what it takes to keep illegals out, then yes. I don’t understand why everyone can’t see that these people are BREAKING THE LAW. In fact they’re felons.</p>
<p>As for the “My screenname is ironic”…I can’t have grace because I don’t want to help them break the law? Please.</p>
<p>My senior class’s project is to get rid of homelessness in my hometown (which, by the way, won’t be an easy feat as we have one of the highest homeless populations in the country; we even have other counties sending their homeless here because they don’t want them). I will have done at least 120 Community Service hours before I graduate. I sponsor a little boy in Uganda so that he can go to school and hopefully have a good life.</p>
<p>I find it interesting that whenever people disagree with me, they try and tell me that His grace apparently doesn’t fill me. Just kind of tickles me a little.</p>
<p>I pray at lunch every other day (the other days I go home at lunch), and no one ever bothers me about it. I go to church once a week, and I live the most Christ-like life that I can. But as soon as you don’t like what I’m saying, you tell me it’s not true? Please.</p>
<p>Look, I agree that companies should stop hiring illegals and that would probably stop the flood. Then we wouldn’t have to build a 2000 mile wall with guard dogs and machine guns.</p>
<p>But there is no good purpose to posting a link to an article with unsupported statistics aimed at fear-mongering. How many more crimes are committed by people who were born here? Who have black hair? Who are left handed? I think everyone should be looked on with suspicion until proven innocent. ;)</p>
<p>Oh, I’m not supporting the article. Far from it…I doubt that there’s any basis in it at all (I didn’t even bother to read it). </p>
<p>And I would much rather not have to build a huge wall, because it would take money away from other things we probably need more. I’m just saying that it’s not right that they get to come here illegally. If they want to be here that badly, they need to take the time to do it right. We all immigrated at some point (unless you’re full-blooded Native American), so obviously it can be done.</p>
<p>Of course it’s not right, it’s illegal. But the problem can’t be so simply solved. Immigration is hardly a black and white issue. Simply instating a moratorium isn’t the answer; imagine the backlash.</p>
<p>The “article”? Blech.</p>
<p>Of course the problem can be solved. Illegal immigrants come here to work. (Yeah, I know the propaganda is that they come her to leech off our welfare system. But that’s a load of crap. They come her to work at jobs which pay more than those back home.) It’s just as illegal to hire undocumented workers as it is to be one. So throw a few of those “felons” - yes, the respectable corporate executives in the agribusiness, maintenance and construction firms, the nanny-hirers, etc. - in jail, hit them with big fines - really enforce the laws against hiring undocumented immigrants - and the problem would be solved. No jobs = no illegals. </p>
<p>But that solution isn’t really wanted by the wealthy and powerful - you know, the people who support our current Administration. So the perfect wedge issue has been created: people vent their sputtering rage on the tools of the situation - the poor latino workers - and totally ignore those who actually have created and fostered the situation - those nice, affluent Americans who actually pocket most of the benefit from maintaining the status quo of illegal immigrant workers.</p>
<p>It is pathetically easy to manipulate a significant portion of the American public into becoming outraged at the wrong people, for the wrong reason, while they are being picked clean by the real bad guys. The “felonious” immigrants are just poor, hardworking people trying to improve their lots - just like all of us and our immigrant ancestors. The manipulators - the guys behind the guys who feed you folks the kind of crap that started this thread - are the real “felons.” But you’ll never see that as long as you let them convince you that the real problem lies with a bunch of poor, powerless people who “aren’t like us.” Sad.</p>
<p>Of course, of course, I didn’t mean to imply the situation was hopeless. It’s just that building a wall and stopping legal immigration wouldn’t really help anyone.</p>
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<p>This isn’t so “obvious.” The American immigration system now and that of 50 years ago is very different. The differences between now and 100 years ago are enormous, and the farther back you go, the more radically different the situation is. So, no, telling someone “go immigrate legally” is not so simple.</p>
<p>The democrats have just as much support from the wealthy and powerful–you think all Hillary’s money is really coming from Chinese busboys?? The rich support whomever is likely to be in power to help them. Right now the smart money is on the dems.</p>
<p>The GAO did a study on crime by illegals. Big numbers</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html[/url]”>http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html</a></p>
<p>It’s not supposed to be simple. That’s the whole point. It’s supposed to be difficult, to discourage those who don’t absolutely NEED to immigrate.</p>
<p>But like I said earlier, if they need to come here, they need to take the time and do it legally.</p>
<p>Not to mention the people who are here quite legally and have been trying to become citizens by following all the rules; meanwhile, the rules change, or their paperwork gets lost, or perhaps because of understaffing the process takes a few years longer than they are legally allowed to be here. Sad stories of families having to split up as one parent is deported while the children (who were born here) have to decide which parent to stay with.</p>
<p>No, it’s not so easy.</p>