<p>The Bible is God’s word. I believe it. And that’s all I need to know. Hopefully I will see some of you Christians when I get to heaven! It’s going to be a party!</p>
<p>mantori.suzuki, you guessed my response incorrectly. Just because you are saved absolves you of nada. In fact, Jesus leads me to complete culpability. He makes everyone responsible for their actions. He is the embodiment of responsibility. He got murdered because people did not want to hear His telling them to be responsible by loving others properly.</p>
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<p>no. but they are not pure evil, no more than the other hyberbolic end of the good/bad spectrum (Ghandi, MLK, Mother Theresa) are pure good.</p>
<p>eddieodessa, can you tell me why I should go to hell for my wool & linen mixed garments?</p>
<p>dplane, I do not understand what you said.</p>
<p>If Jesus died for my sins, if he carries the burden of my wrongdoing, I no longer do. In my opinion, this robs me of my human responsibility before God.</p>
<p>lifnei adonai tit’haru</p>
<p>and you shall go before God and be cleansed.</p>
<p>mini-your brain and heart need to get born again. They are both dead. It is like trying to force food in the mouth of a corpse. You may get it in, but it won’t do any good 'cause you all be dead. Until your mind and heart become regenerated by the Holy Spirit, your understanding and arguments are fool’s speach. I know, because I read EVERY word in the Bible and took 1rst year Greek just to refute my Stanford physician grad dad and Tufts physician/professor grad brother. They didn’t nail me. Jesus did when I suddenly got the “Ah ha” experience. I dared to ask Jesus to lead me to His truth…and He led me to Himself. Man did that break my heart. I was literally broken with tears reading His words until the wee hours of morning for two weeks straight. It really was an amazing experience. And yes, I did thank by perservering dad and bro. I love and respect them and understand them completely now.</p>
<p>“Ghandi” - means “Candy” in Gujarati. I think you meant “Gandhi”.</p>
<p>dplane - I’m sorry you had such a sad time of it. But am glad you’re now well, and found something that works for you.</p>
<p>I was once in Vijayavada, India, after a cyclone, representing Oxfam. They were funneling all their aid through the Atheist Center there, an institution founded by a friend of Gandhi named Gora, and known for the quality of their charitable work. <a href=“http://www.positiveatheism.org/tocindia.htm[/url]”>http://www.positiveatheism.org/tocindia.htm</a> (I’m NOT an atheist.) So I finished my work (I have lots of wonderful stories - including atheists walking behind Brahman priests over hot coals, yelling “There is No God! There is No God.”)</p>
<p>Anyway, a young man - about 25, I think (and I wasn’t much older), took me to the train station on my way out. The train was late (fairly normal), so he had about an extra hour to tell me his life story.</p>
<p>“I cheated and robbed,” he said, “and belonged to a gang, and beat people up. I stole, and had many women. I drank a lot of alcohol, and used drugs.” He basically told me he had done everything except murder his mother.</p>
<p>Then, he got to the end of the story. With an extraordinary light in his eye, he stood up, and looking at me, and with the greatest fervor in his voice, proclaimed, “And then I discovered Atheism! And my whole world was changed!”</p>
<p>(Oh, P.S. I should have added, then he gave me a book.)</p>
<p>While I have no authority of compulsion, may I commend us all to separate our beliefs here from what we expect of others? If what I believe is true, I should be able to do better than demand someone else submit merely because I believe, or so it seems to me. And as you might expect, I will not accept another belief in place of my own unless I am convinced that the other belief is superior in quality, and so I choose to change.</p>
<p>And I should also remind us that this forum is - again by my understanding - a place of congenial discussion. Let’s set a good example, please.</p>
<p>mini: my bad :).</p>
<p>candy is the exception, for it is pure goodness :)</p>
<p>dplane, God provided you with thought and scripture. Nothing more. Your moving tale of enlightenment is therefore false. Jesus did nothing for you. You found meaning to life all by yourself.</p>
<p>Hey IBfootballer, you gotta do the footwork yourself. Just pick up the Message Bible or New International, or Living Bible and read Jesus’ words in red. That’ll be a start. I trust that if you ask Jesus to talk to your conscience and lead your mind as you read His love letter to you, you will be led by Him. On a side bar, do you play football? I am a quarterback. We run the fly. I hate it because my dad trained me to the west coast offense–love to throw.</p>
<p>does the Bible not prohibit idolatry?</p>
<p>does worshiping a physical object, image, or man as divine not qualify as idolatry?</p>
<p>IB, is your message for me? If so, huh?</p>
<p>I do not need Jesus. I have God and myself. God has provided me the capacity to think, to learn, to love, and to be curious. I do not need an intermediary between myself and God.</p>
<p>I do play football. OL/DL.</p>
<p>The bible prohibits idolatry.</p>
<p>Idolatry is the treatment/classification of physical, corporeal objects as divine ones. Men, statues, natural objects, etc. are corporeal/physical object.</p>
<p>Jesus is/was a physical object.</p>
<p>Thus, worship of Jesus is idolatry, which is expressly forbidden in the 10 commandments.</p>
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<p>This is unbelievably presumptuous. How dare you speak to someone in that manner. You are providing an excellent argument to anyone who looks for a reason–as if another is needed–to reject your religious point of view.</p>
<p>It’s okay. He isn’t a parent (or at least I doubt it), and hasn’t been around parental conversation long enough to fit in appropriately on a parents’ message board. It’s not original sin or anything, just lack of experience. It’s quite believably presumptuous, and will be remedied with time and experience. Or not. ;)</p>
<p>For the record, I think my birth turned out perfectly fine the first time, thank you, though I would have preferred a little more height for basketball and reaching into the kitchen cupboards.</p>
<p>Just two more thoughts before I abandon this thread for greener pastures.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>dplane, sorry to put words in your mouth and thanks for the correction.</p></li>
<li><p>mini, if you would kindly drop a figurine of yourself into the mail, I’d like to worship it, because you are my god now.* Well, that’s a slight overstatement. But you have inspired me to look into Quakers a bit more.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Peace, out!</p>
<ul>
<li> props to Kathy Griffin</li>
</ul>
<p>"I’d like to worship it, because you are my god now.*</p>
<p>As Friends say, “little piece in each of us.” :)</p>
<p>Mini,</p>
<p>Exactly, and that is the “soul”.</p>
<p>I don’t think God is going to permanently discard parts of him/her self just because of a few years of errors. He/she might erase the record, leavng the soul as a totally or partially fresh tableau rosa. </p>
<p>Is total and permanent amnesia a sort of “death” if you can start fresh and retain new expeiences?</p>
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<p>So what would that make those who treat the bible as something divine? :eek:</p>
<p>They drive me nuts.</p>
<p>Anyone else see all the pretty, circular arguments?</p>
<p>** sigh **</p>
<p>Welllll, at least this time politics was left out of the bonfire.</p>