Immigrant Rallies

Parent Cafe
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<p>“Second, Hurricane Katrina pretty much displaced the entire African American population of New Orleans throughout the country. Many victims and survivors are too scared and depressed to return back to New Orleans. After all, they lost their homes, their jobs, their institutions, and their sense of community. Plus, New Orleans was one of the poorest cities in America since it depended on a tourist and service economy.”</p>

<p>The undocumented workers restoring New Orleans were not displaced by Katrina. They are coming there new or fresh, seeking and finding high-paying job opportunities. Those same opportunities are available for white Americans or African-Americans who were not displaced by Katrina, who have never ever been to New Orleans before, if they choose. As for your comment about Washington State, there aren’t any white folks in the cherry orchards either.</p>

<p>I not only know about sharecropping; it makes up a major part of a book I have published. But I think you have hit on a major reason why Mexican immigrants get on your nerves - racism, pure and simple.</p>

<p>There are huge problems facing our country. Problems of the elderly, and in the funding of social security. A collapsing health care system. A K-12 educational system that is a mess. Funding for higher education. Need for massive investment in alternative fuels. Meanwhile, we are spending our mental and economic resources on what are major distractions - a losing war in Iraq, big fences to keep out precisely those folks who are part of the solution rather than the problem.</p>

<p>Mexicans are assimilating everywhere. As Tex-Dad notes, they are being elected to public office in major numbers. They are starting businesses in major cities. Their children are becoming educated. They work harder than everyone else, both to make a better life for themselves here, and to send money home to their families. With total immigration at its lowest point in two decads, what the country needs is more rather than fewer of them.</p>

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<p>Mini, respectfully, you are overlooking a thing or two. For example, it’s a general belief that many, many employers that hire illegal aliens do not withhold the appropriate taxes from wages. Clearly therefore, nothing is being added to the social security fund etc. from those wages. Moreover, some unethical employers reneg on wages themselves.</p>

<p>Finally and most clearly, jobs like produce picking would be flush with American applicants if the jobs paid more. Should produce workers and fast food clerks make $15 per hour? I can’t say; supply and demand usually dictates that. But selfish employers have fractured the laws of supply and demand by gaming the system through illegal immigration. Remember when American teenagers picked fruit and worked at the XYZ Hot Dog stand during the summers? It seems to me that illegal aliens became prominent in such jobs when employers discovered that they had to pay above minimum wage to attract citizens.</p>

<p>And this is not just an issue of field workers and construction laborers. In Manhattan (on the liberal upper west side, no less), a fancy gourmet supermarket was found to have improperly exploited its mostly African-immigrant workers.</p>

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<p>“For example, it’s a general belief that many, many employers that hire illegal aliens do not withhold the appropriate taxes from wages. Clearly therefore, nothing is being added to the social security fund etc. from those wages. Moreover, some unethical employers reneg on wages themselves.”</p>

<p>It is very easy for you, if you choose, to go to the Department of Labor website, look up those occupations where undocumented workers are concentrated (not mom-and-pop shops, but massive orchards, farms, chicken production lines, major construction companies) and you can see how much is paid into Social Security, workers comp, and etc. </p>

<p>I used to be a state regulator of farmworker housing. I used to go out with the guy from the U.S. Department of Labor. Every farm paid for every worker into Social Security, etc. Not doing so resulted in HUGE fines, and every farmer knew it.</p>

<p>“Finally and most clearly, jobs like produce picking would be flush with American applicants if the jobs paid more.”</p>

<p>You have no clue how much picking pays, do you? Per hour wages are actually quite high (in my state, averages over $10 an hour.) But the work is HARD, housing conditions poor, and pickers have to be prepared to move from place to place. Whites won’t do; neither will African-Americans. In New Orleans, the work is now paying $16 an hour. Anyone, from anywhere in the United States, can pick himself up and go. You’ll get no argument from me if you think it should pay $20.</p>

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<p>Mini, you are ignoring the psychological impacts that Hurricane Katrina had on the people of New Orleans. Many wish to not return for fear that another natural disaster may occur and wipe the city out. Others have become settled in other parts of the nation that are probably HIGHER-PAYING and have a better standard of living. I cannot believe that you are defending the rights of immigrant workers who have to live in poor conditions. Guess what? They don’t have any obligation to stay here permanently. If they hate the poor conditions so much because they are not supposed to be in this country in the first place, they should return back to their native lands to avoid exploitation. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. </p>

<p>I have no sympathy for defending illegal immigrants. They are illegal. They are not citizens. Therefore, she should not have the same rights as American citizens and permanent residents until they follow the same paperwork that legal immigrants have to go through every year. There is no point to make special exceptions for those who live on the border. We will end up like Rome in a few decades. As we absorb more people than we can handle (thank illegal immigration), funding for basic services such as education and health care will dry out. We already have K-12 school systems complaining that it costs them too much money from their budget to educate the children of undocumented immigrants. Who does this hurt? Native-born children. Parents end up taking their kids out of the public schools and place them in pricey private schools that are racially homogenous. We need a REGULATED system that will allow the government to implement tighter security along the U.S. borders AND document who is actually in this country.</p>

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<p>'Mini, you are ignoring the psychological impacts that Hurricane Katrina had on the people of New Orleans. Many wish to not return for fear that another natural disaster may occur and wipe the city out."</p>

<p>I think you are deliberately missing what I am saying entirely. My post wasn’t about anyone “returning” to New Orleans. The Hispanic migrant construction workers going to New Orleans are NOT “returning” to New Orleans - most had never even set foot there before. Anyone who is NOT from New Orleans could get up tomorrow and go there and find work - any white person, Black person, blue person, or pink person. Any unemployed person who has never even seen New Orleans.</p>

<p>But they don’t. Thanks to Hispanic immigrants, however, there will be a city again.</p>

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<p>'We already have K-12 school systems complaining that it costs them too much money from their budget to educate the children of undocumented immigrants. Who does this hurt? Native-born children. " </p>

<p>I know that I am tired of hearing from our local school system that foreign language in elementary and middle school has to be cut as do the arts and music because more and more money has to be spent on ESL. If I moved to a non English speaking country I wouldn’t expect that country to have to foot the bill to teach me their language. Native born students do suffer because of the influx.</p>

<p>As tenis stated I see no problem with immigration, JUST DO IT LEGALLY!</p>

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<p>MKM56, I have also contacted my senators and congressman for the very first time. I hope more and more people will do the same. Politicians should be reminded of who they represent. </p>

<p>The hundreds of thousands of protesters, many waving Mexican flags, have brought to light the magnitude of this issue. It is unfair that LEGAL immigrants have to wait years and years for citizenship after obeying our laws and respecting our great country, while illegal immigrants could short-cut the system under some of the proposed bills. The recent marches not only demonstrate the sheer numbers of illegal immigrants, but the lack of appreciation and respect for our country and a sense of entitlement.</p>

<p>Although some illegal immigrants are willing to do the jobs Americans wont, what is the percentage compared to the overall numbers of people here illegally? Are the hundreds of thousands of mothers of 5 and 6 kids and their families benefiting from free welfare, education and medical care? Overall the cost is much greater than the benefit of allowing millions and millions of people to cross our borders illegally every year.</p>

<p>There should be no amnesty for people who break our laws. Maybe a permit to allow workers to be here, but we should NEVER grant citizenship to people who came here illegally.</p>

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<p>“I know that I am tired of hearing from our local school system that foreign language in elementary and middle school has to be cut as do the arts and music because more and more money has to be spent on ESL.”</p>

<p>You can look at the budgets yourself. The arts and music budgets are being cut because of the testocrats and NCLB (and tests are NOT given in foreign languages), not because of ESL (which has been cut virtually everywhere, and is against the law in some states which require all instruction be in English - including some with the largest Hispanic populations.) Just another lie spread by the xenophobes to distract us from the real problems facing this country.</p>

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<p>Mini is right about the migrant Hispanic (many illegal) construction workers. The jobs are there, many Americans won’t take them. Some will, construction workers have come from MN, TX, AZ, Washington, all over the country, and not all are Hispanic or white, but many of the day laborers are Hispanic. On the local news last night, they stated that according to the Census Bureau, our county was 2% hispanic (these numbers are pre-hurricanes, though). I just laughed, they had obviously not been to Walmart at 7pm on Fri night. Whole carloads of Hispanic men, just men, come in to do their shopping, post-payday.
Americans won’t sleep 5 or 6 to a room in a cheap motel for months, they won’t work 6 days a week, and they won’t increase their hours when daylight savings goes into effect.</p>

<p>A recurrent theme in P’cola about roofs, was you never really knew if the roof was done right, because the only person who spoke English came to set up the job, 3 weeks befoer the workers actually showed up. And the skills of the workers varied immensely.</p>

<p>This is going to sound terribly racist, but it is the simple truth. A much higher proportion of Hispanic construction workers are family men, or younger men with aspirations to marry and have families. Many of the poorest displaced black NOLA residents are single black women with children, mothers and grandmothers, and elderly men and women. The young adult men are in jail, on drugs, in gangs, or are so excited about being out of NOLA and in a place with more opportunities, that they have no intentions of ever going back. The men of middle class black families aren’t looking for day laborer jobs; although I’m sure some have scraped up some construction tools and a truck, and headed back to LA to work on a contract basis, just like hundreds of lower middle class to middle class white construction workers across the South have. The men from middle class families have either found middle class jobs where they are, or, like many Gulf Coast families of all ethnic backgrounds, are living in limbo waiting for the flood maps to decide what to do about their futures.</p>

<p>I’m not sure it would be any different if we were talking about poor white Americans vs Hispanic migrants - AMericans are raised with a sense of entitlement, we just have lost the incentive to work as hard as these immigrants. Now faced with the same set of imperatives - things might change.</p>

<p>As for what to do about illegal immigration - that requires someone with more wisdom than I have. I do wonder, though, if we don’t enforce the laws we have now, how will passing more laws that we can’t or won’t enforce make any difference?!</p>

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<p>Americans won’t sleep 5 or 6 to a room in a cheap motel for months, they won’t work 6 days a week, and they won’t increase their hours when daylight savings goes into effect.</p>

<p>Cangel, why should Americans live like that? This isn’t the 1950s. Maybe you forgot why we had the labor union movement in the 1930s? They strived for BETTER working conditions, LIVING WAGE, and eight-hour work day 5 days a week. That law is the National Labor Relations Act. I guess we should all return back to a time when industrialists liked hiring workers that were expendable. Again, you have no argument whatsoever.</p>

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<p>

I find it interesting Mini has to resort to name calling when making a point. Xenophobia is the fear of foreigners. The illegal immigration issue is about people ILLEGALLY entering our land, disrespecting our laws, and expecting to benefit from free services such as education and medical care. Talk about entitlement!! The issue has nothing to do with racism or xenophobia.</p>

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<p>Cangel, thank you for stating the facts. You are NOT racists, rather you just pinpointed one of the main problems with black America, but thats another topic for another day. </p>

<p>And I agree with Socal05

[/quote]
There should be no amnesty for people who break our laws. Maybe a permit to allow workers to be here, but we should NEVER grant citizenship to people who came here illegally.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This important issue demands the legal citizens of the US utmost attention. I am afraid if we don’t stand firm now, the US will implode in another 20-30 yrs. Every great power has its glory days and fall from grace. I am afraid future historians might marked this to be the beginning of the end. Stop it now, for us and for our children.</p>

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<p>Here’s better quote.

</p>

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<p>Even African Americans are silent on the immigrantion issue…</p>

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<p>My parents had neither the gumption nor the money to enter the U.S. illegally or legally. I came here as a graduate student, on a B1 visa, worked my butt off, took care of a quadriplegic in order to save on rent, and got H1 status, followed by permanent residency. All done legally. We are proud contributers to the economy as taxpayers, and pay into the soc. security system, (even though we may never see any of it), and generous volunteers in the community.</p>

<p>I don’t know what the solution to this problem is. But when I hear folk at the rally say “This is one America, all the way down to Paraguay, we can all stay wherever we want”, it really irks me.</p>

<p>How about we take care of everyone who is here legally, including college education for everyone who wants it but cannot afford it, homes and meals for those who have none, those who fought in our wars, those with mental disabilities, healthcare for all etc.etc.</p>

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<p>From Reagan-appointee Linda Chavez (hardly a “liberal”):</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/lindachavez/2006/04/05/192544.html[/url]”>http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/lindachavez/2006/04/05/192544.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>In part:</p>

<p>"Third, the overwhelming majority of illegal aliens pay taxes, including Social Security, Medicare and property taxes, not to mention sales taxes. The chief actuary of the Social Security Administration estimates that three-fourths of all illegal aliens have Social Security (and Medicare) taxes deducted from their wages. How? It’s simple. </p>

<p>Since it is illegal to hire someone who does not present a Social Security number (and show other documentation of legal residence), many illegal aliens use phony numbers or cards to get jobs. In 2002 alone, the Social Security Administration reported it had collected $7 billion in payroll taxes and $1.5 billion in Medicare taxes from workers who could not be matched with valid Social Security numbers. </p>

<p>In addition, illegal aliens pay property taxes just like everyone else, either directly, if they own homes (and surprising numbers of illegal aliens do), or indirectly through their landlords’ property taxes in the form of rent. Most illegal aliens pay income taxes – since these, too, are automatically deducted – but they fail to claim any refunds since they are fearful of drawing attention to their illegal status. "</p>

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<p>

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<p>LOL. That will be the future of the United States of America.</p>

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<p>LOL edvest…then we can purchase some of that ocean front Baja property!</p>

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<p>Mini is right. Workers may be here illegally, but their work enables the American lifestyle that includes (relatively) inexpensive produce, widespread childcare for two-income families, the “unseen hands” that clean up after many of us. As a society, we’ve closed our eyes and allowed this to happen and, in the process, we’ve all created a stratification of the seen and the unseen, the legal and the illegal. It’s very doubtful that any government, esp. one that is pro-business and needs high-middle wage workers – who in turn need maids, caregivers for their kids and aging parents, food servers, etc. – not to mention other low-wage workers, will ever bar the door to immigrants. And because the process for becoming legal is more arduous than ever, illegal immigration will continue unless real recognition of the role that these immigrants play is addressed. At present, they are treated like something between a household pet cum vacuum cleaner and The Fugitive. No society should tolerate this.</p>

<p>Listen, many of our parents were immigrants. They all worked hard. And getting citizenship was a great deal easier then. We worked hard to get what we have, too, but many of us began on a more level playing field. Does that make us more entitled now to call ourselves the only Americans? Instead of railing against the criminality of immigrants who have no choice but to be illegal (at least for awhile), we might begin a real discourse based on the real situation already here and consider how other countries – like Canada, for instance with its famous mosasic (as opposed to melting pot) – have assimilated the vast waves of legal and illegal immigrants that have hit their countries. </p>

<p>The truth is that many functional aspects of our government don’t work for the realities at hand. If there was a more streamlined citizenship process in place – or even a clear and acceptable path for guest workers, illegality would drop.</p>

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<p>Excellent post, Alia.</p>