Immigrant Rallies

Parent Cafe
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<p>Every Office of Management and Budget study - under both Democratic and Republican Administrations - has come to the same conclusion: with an aging population, there aren’t enough young workers - legal or illegal doesn’t matter - to sustain us, given current assumptions. Not enough to support Social Security, or Medicare, not enough to support the construction trades or the health care industries, not enough for the agricultural sector. </p>

<p>The standard of living in the U.S. has stagnated because capitalists have been sending traditional manufacturing and service sector jobs abroad, and white folks and Black folks and pink folks have not migrated to those jobs - many of which pay well more than minimum wage - that are going begging. Again, in 10 years, I never saw a white or Black cherrypicker - and they made upwards of $10/hr. </p>

<p>There IS an immigration problem - with total immigration at historic lows, we need much more of it.</p>

<p>“The hotel/restaurant service industry was always predominately black until Latinos pushed them out.”</p>

<p>Latinos didn’t push anybody anywhere. Never saw a major hotel or restaurant chain owned by Latinos. Have you?</p>

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<p>Most people don’t realize that alot of illegal immigrants never cross the US -Mexican border. They come on a plane and oversaty on their visas!!! More than 40% of illegal immigrants come in that way. There are also many illegal Asian and African immigrants in the US. Another point worth mentioning is that African and Middle Eastern illegal immigrants are floooding European borders just as Mexican are here. It is natural human logic to want to create a better life for yourself. For those who argue European immigrants came here legally, truthfully that is not much of an argument. European immigrants circa 1890 had none of the strict measures immigrants face today when trying to come in legally. Also, the immigarnts coming here illegally are for the most part economically disadvantaged and the US government will not grant visas to those who cannot prove they have a stable income. That is why they come here illegally, they don’t have time to wait around for a visa when their kids are starving.</p>

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<p>tenisghs, are you willing to take up that job as an apple picker or perhaps you are willing to dish wash at your nearest restaraunt. Slavery and sharecropping are not really an option mind you.</p>

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<p>^^ then what do you recommend the US Policy should be?
just let everything happen as it is? there are lots of people in the US who are need of a job and im sure that job will be picked up in a heartbeat…you can expect a person at a higher social class to just move down but that doesnt also the give to right to rationalize that illegal immigration is ok</p>

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<p>But there are jobs in America! If there were no jobs here then there would be no illegal immigration, it’s just simple supply and demand. Illegal immigration is not ideal, trust me they suffer alot more than you do at the hands of employers who underpay them and violate their rights everday. However, the issue is the current call for deportation and building a wall. This is nonsense. Secure the borders by all means, create a more organized process of immigration and a guest-worker program that would benefit both US firms and immigrants but trying to weed out all illegal immigration and immigrants from Latin America is unrealistic. It’s impossible.</p>

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<p>bornconfused, there “are” jobs but employers have the right to pick who they want to employ. It is cheaper (and illegal) to employ undocumented workers than American citizens OR those who have work visas. There are COUNTLESS stories of American citizens applying for openings in unskilled work, and undocumented workers take the spots because they are willing to earn less or the job positions have become unofficially “Latino only.” I don’t need to explain myself again. Companies know they won’t get in trouble for employing illegals unless the U.S. government cracks down on such business behaviors. </p>

<p>I don’t believe the US should force (i.e., police intervention) undocumented families from their homes to go back to their native lands. That is inhumane. However, if the U.S. adopts a tough immigration policy that will crackdown on illegal immigration, I think most families will understand the message, pick up their belongings, and return to their native countries own rather than face, let’s say, the National Guard. Right now, the US has an open-border policy. No regulation on the number of immigrants entering the country will harm the United States politically and economically.</p>

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<p>“secure the borders by all means, create a more organized process of immigration and a guest-worker program that would benefit both US firms”</p>

<p>No “guest-worker” program as far as I’m concerned. We’ve seen “guest-worker” programs - in Dubai, in Saudi Arabia, even in Germany, and it isn’t a pretty picture. The free market works just fine, thank you. Why would I want to put folks’ fate into the hand of unscrupulous labor contractors (who will bring folks from China and the Middle East so they can’t escape), who will house them like dirt, and profit off human degradation? Why do we need yet another set of profiteers to take money off the backs of the poor? </p>

<p>The reality is that there just isn’t a lot of immigration in the U.S. now, legal or illegal. There just isn’t. Yes, there are 11 million in the U.S. now. But the number of new immigrants, relative to population, is a trickle - lowest in 20 years. Worried about terrorists? Might as well start with white Christians in Oklahoma. </p>

<p>What the folks in the border states are worried about is race and power. The immigrants are no longer immigrants, their children are citizens, working their way up, getting elected to public office, clamoring for changes. That’s the way it worked with the Irish, the Slavs, the Jews, the Italians, the Puerto Ricans, the Cubans in Florida. It’s what made (and continues to make) this country great.</p>

<p>“I don’t need to explain myself again.”</p>

<p>Oh, yes you do. Tell me how many white folks and black folks and pink folks have shown up in New Orleans and been turned away from jobs. Or in Wenatchee, Washington. (I spent 10 years there, and never saw even one.) Or in the fields of Fresno, California. Or the chicken processing plants. Come on - I’m waiting for you to explain it.</p>

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<p>A Mexican family owns most of the Mexican restaurants in the Seattle region. Something over 60. While they might not be one chain Mexicans own a boatload of restaurants around the southern US from Texas to California.</p>

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<p>tenisghs, I respect your opinion but I must argue against your opinion of “countless” American citizens looking for unskilled jobs. Statistics prove that there is a substantial amount of unfilled labor that must be filled by immigrants. Unskilled workers in this country are a minority. With all the opportunities in this country do you really believe that anyone should be unskilled?
As an immigrant myself I must tell you that few people will be willing to take up their own bags and relocate. Who would be willing to sacrifice years of hard work, families, house, car, in order to relocate to a country where they don’t have anything anymore. I doubt any amount of guards or dogs or guns will make them leave.</p>

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<p>“A Mexican family owns most of the Mexican restaurants in the Seattle region. Something over 60.”</p>

<p>Some of their kids even attend Evergreen. ;)</p>

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<p>Some of the jobs could be automated if labor were no longer around. In california they redesigned some plants so that automatic pickers could do the work. I think many of the meatpacking and some of the construction jobs could be designed or automated out of existence if necessary.</p>

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<p>“We’ve seen “guest-worker” programs - in Dubai, in Saudi Arabia, even in Germany, and it isn’t a pretty picture.”
Wow… I have never heard about this… I will surely check into it,thanxs for informing =D. However, I must say I doubt it would reach such extremes in America. And what is the alternative to the guest worker program, surely no American would agree to the economist-friendly open border policy.</p>

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<p>I’m sure the family is already ashamed enough.</p>

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<p>Unskilled workers in this country are a minority.</p>

<p>You try telling racial minorities (African Americans, Latinos, Native Americans), poor white working-class families, and rural communities who are just as likely to be undereducated, underinsured, and work in lower-paying jobs. I don’t buy your argument at all. </p>

<p>And for those who don’t want to return, reform the government. If Latin American countries, such as Chile, Bolivia, and Brazil, can elect reform leaders who want to improve the quality of life in their countries, places such as Mexico can do the same.</p>

<p>*Tell me how many white folks and black folks and pink folks have shown up in New Orleans and been turned away from jobs. Or in Wenatchee, Washington. (I spent 10 years there, and never saw even one.) Or in the fields of Fresno, California. Or the chicken processing plants. Come on - I’m waiting for you to explain it. *</p>

<p>**The lead researcher, sociology professor John Logan, determined that if the city’s returning population was limited to neighborhoods undamaged by Katrina, half of the white population would not return and 80 percent of the black population would not return.</p>

<p>“There’s very good reason for people to be concerned that the future New Orleans will not be a place for the people who used to live there, that there won’t be room in New Orleans for large segments of the population that used to call it home,” said Logan, who studies urban areas.</p>

<p>It found the storm-damaged areas had been 75 percent black, compared to 46 percent black in undamaged areas of the city. It also found that 29 percent of the households in damaged areas lived below the poverty line, compared with 24 percent of households in undamaged areas.</p>

<p>Most were renters
More than half of those who lived in the city’s damaged neighborhoods were renters, the analysis found.</p>

<p>“The odds of living in a damaged area were clearly much greater for blacks, renters and poor people,” Logan said in a statement issued with the analysis. “In these respects, the most vulnerable residents turned out also to be at greatest risk.”
**</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11060175/[/url]”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11060175/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>^^ excellent evidence to back your point of view :)</p>

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<p>I am aware that there are unskilled workers, but that does not take away the fact that they are a minority and that in the future even these unskilled American workers or their descendants will become skilled, I mean that’s if you believe that America is progressing.
As for refprming the government, I really truly wish it was that easy. You’re right that is ideally what should happen but its unrealistic. Have you been to Bolivia? I have and trust me most of them would sell an eye to come to America, despite some governmental reform. They are still submerged in utter poverty. The governments you have mentioned that have gone through reform are all highly socialistic, and Mexico is about to elect a president who is socialistic as well, this is great but it does not mean it will change the situation overnight. You are over simplyfying the complex political and social history of Latin America.</p>

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<p>“he lead researcher, sociology professor John Logan, determined that if the city’s returning population was limited to neighborhoods undamaged by Katrina, half of the white population would not return and 80 percent of the black population would not return.”</p>

<p>For the third time, why are you talking about “returnees”? The migrant workers aren’t returnees. They’d never been to New Orleans before. Nothing stops a white or a Black or a pink or a blue worker who has never been to New Orleans from turning up and earning $16 an hour. Workers from thousands of miles away, just like those from southern Mexico or Honduras. They could come from New York or L.A. or Chicago, having never set foot in New Orleans before.</p>

<p>Why are you so focused on “returnees”, if all those unemployed workers from all over the country could just as easily descend on New Orleans and find easy employment? The returnees are entirely irrelevant - a factoid that has no bearing on the question. </p>

<p>I don’t understand your fixation. I’m still awaiting an answer -</p>

<p>Tell me how many white folks and black folks and pink folks have shown up in New Orleans and been turned away from jobs. Or in Wenatchee, Washington. (I spent 10 years there, and never saw even one.) Or in the fields of Fresno, California. Or the chicken processing plants. Come on - I’m waiting for you to explain it.</p>

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<p>*Why are you so focused on “returnees”, if all those unemployed workers from all over the country could just as easily descend on New Orleans and find easy employment? *</p>

<p>And where are these people supposed to live?</p>

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<p>Barrons-of course some of the Latinos identify more as white. Latino is not really a race and being white accords one priviledgese in the US. In the same vein of logic, some blacks in the 1920s tried to “pass” as white. And as for the logic of returning the US to the Mexicans, you’re absoutely yourworld. That would be the logical thing to do. I’m not waiting for that to happen for obvious reasons-but I’m only trying to point out the delusional logic of most anti-immigration people and the obscuring of basic historical facts. What really irks me is when white Americans try to take the moral high ground and talk about how they came here “legally.” Who decides what is legal? Some of my ancestors came over during the colonial period but I doubt the Native Americans thought their use of land was legal. And, no, I’m not into self deprecation but I think in the immigration debate, only African Americans and Native Americans can really take any sort of moral high ground. Otherwise, I favor large controlled immigration. Most legal barriors preventing immigratns should be lifted-provided they are in good health and have no criminal background. 300 million is a very low population compared to most of the world. Also, it’s interesting how people immediately focus on the Latino immigrants when many Chinese are also illegal immgrants. Somehow being Asians is closer to being “white” amost which of course is illogical but most racial ideas are devoid of logic.</p>

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<p>Somehow being Asians is closer to being “white” amost which of course is illogical but most racial ideas are devoid of logic.</p>

<p>The number of illegal Asian immigrants is very small compared to the number of illegal Latino immigrants. That is why these protests are having a hard time recruiting other immigrant backgrounds (European, Asian, African, Middle Eastern, etc.). The majority of Asian Americans here are citizens, permanent residents, or have work/student visas. I don’t see why we should reward those who overstay their visas and feel they should become citizens without going through the necessary legal paperwork and citizenship requirements. I don’t care how long it takes; the US has a right to regulate and track who comes into this country.</p>

<p>Americans also oppose illegal immigration because most of the migrants tend to come from poor and undereducated backgrounds. We do not need to absorb this kind of population in the United States when we clearly have social policies that do not favor the poor and working class. If Mexico only wants to have the “cream of the crop” (scientists, professionals) entering their borders, why can’t the U.S. regulate the number of immigrants entering too?</p>