<p>I don’t agree with those two vaccines being mandated
What is the impetus? Pressure from the pharma companies?</p>
<p>From Chicago Sun Times
.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>wow:</p>
<p>I’m rather surprised.</p>
<ul>
<li>Chickenpox is a highly contagious disease, usually knocking its victims out of school for at least 10 days, and maybe longer, not to mention high fever, severe itching, rash, pock scars, etc. </li>
<li>The two-dose vaccine has a ~90% protection rate according to the Mayo Clinic.</li>
<li>45 states mandate the chickenpox vaccine for school-aged kids. NJ (reportedly) mandated in 2004, and North Carolina mandated in 2006.</li>
<li>Prior to the vaccine, chickenpox infected 4 million each year, mostly kids. Of those, 11,000 required hospitalization (cdc). 100 people used to die each from chickenpox.</li>
</ul>
<p>It seems to me, that mandating this vaccine is a no-brainer, for all but those with possible religious objections.</p>
<p>The problem with chickenpox vaccine, as I see it, is that one dose isn’t enough – but a lot of people who had one dose don’t know that.</p>
<p>My kids – then 10 and 7 – received the chickenpox vaccine in 1995. Their protection has probably worn off. The younger one was advised to get a second shot when she got some other vaccines before starting college this fall. But there’s no systematic way in which my older child (now 21) would be informed of his need for another dose of the vaccine. He only knows that he needs it because I have been repeatedly pestering him to get it.</p>
<p>Opie–if the argument was, I just don’t like them, then fine. But it’s not. I gave specific reasons–address them if you want, but it’s fuzzy thinking to say, hey, whatever, keep’em coming. Each should be evaluated on its merits, and its position in a public health plan, not blindly signed on to because big pharma invented another one, and we need to be consistent.</p>
<p>If there’s one thing public schools should require, it’s critical thinking. Doesn’t mean we will all come to the same conclusions, but it means we can talk. that’s important to me.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>With all due respect to your H, do you (and he) dispute the efficacy claims made by the Centers for Disease Control, the FDA, and the National Institutes of Health, not to mention nearly every pediatric group?</p>
<p>"but it’s fuzzy thinking to "</p>
<p>ABSOLUTELY! but hon, you live in a fuzzy thinking world, if it thinks at all. </p>
<p>Chicken pox? if the first wears off, is a booster possible? I seem to remember series of vacines in my youth. </p>
<p>The hep b, I think is a good idea because of the risk. It is not just something transmitted sexually.</p>
<p>I had chickenpox at five – not a dangerous case – and I VIVIDLY remember what torture it was. I find most pain much easier to tolerate than itching. I wish the vaccine had been around back then; independent of the risk of hospitalization, that was an experience worth avoiding on its own merits. I’m scratching phantom itches now just remembering.</p>
<p>Chicken Pox vaccine was initially given as a one dose vaccine. Recent studies have shown you need two doses to ensure immunity.<br>
The vaccine with the lowest efficacy is flu vaccine given in the elderly. It doesn’t really work in that population, at all. Most vaccines, except flu vaccine in the elderly, work in greater than 75% of the population. That is a fantastic amount for a therapy.
Hep B used to be a major issue for health care professionals, but not any more. It used to be a major cause for liver transplants. We are starting to see a decline of HepB.
The most dangerous vaccines were the old Pertussis and Small Pox Vaccine. There is a new Pertussis vaccine, and the Small Pox Vaccine is being retooled, and I believe the new one is somewhere in trials.
The two newest vaccines are for Shingles (Herpes Zoster) and HPV. HPV is extremely expensive, and is only good on 4 strains out of 16. There is also a new rotavirus vaccine. Two herpes vaccines are in trials, along with a second HPV vaccine.
Vaccines are not per se a big money maker for a pharmaceutical company. Their development tends to be subsidized by the government. The price for HepB actually has decreased significantly since it was approved in the early 1990s. So many pharmaceutical companies have bowed out of the vaccine business because the money is not there.
There is a titer for Chicken pox. I had to get it. My natural immunity is still working fine.</p>
<p>If my MD, retired, father could read this thread, (he’s still alive and computer illiterate), he could tell you stories in the old country about small pox, childhood diseases, polio, TB, and bacterial diseases that don’t relate to modern Americans. </p>
<p>My MD, MIL, public health physician, If she could relate to you her experiences after the war, in the old country, would tear your heart on how many children she delivered and then died from common diseases that were preventable with vaccine but unobtainable because of the expense to foreign countries and shortage worldwide.</p>
<p>I remember in the first and second grades when a good third of the us kids were down with the flu, measles, mumps, chicken pox. When one got it, days later more of the kids would get the same disease. For mumps, boys stayed in bed-period. For chickenpox, girls were never to scratch scabs on their faces. Its a wonder that we even were able to earn anything in these two grades. As for polio, I used to worry myself to sleep because I thought leg aches was polio and too frighten to tell my parents. </p>
<p>Your fears are unfounded. You need to question who and what you read and listen to.</p>
<p>As our DS gets prepared to go overseas, India. DS granddad, reminds us that some vaccines take a month or two (hepatitis ?) to become protective. DW makes a special call to DS to get his vaccinations tomorrow. We do want him to be able to reenter USA without any problems.
I am also investigating Travel Insurance and Medical Insurance for DS since he can no longer covered on our health plan. You’ll never know and Why take chances. DS has too bright of a future to, not get vaccination boosters, especially when Canada gives them for free, and the US for a minor cost. Perhaps some parents believe otherwise for their children?</p>
<p>My kids both had chicken pox- not at the same time as they are 8 years apart. YOunger D had it very briefly when she was 3 & 1/2. I first thought she had a bladder infection because she said it hurt to go pee.</p>
<p>I took her in & Dr found a small pox and made us go out the back way!
I found some vitamin c powder and made a poultice out of it. She took a couple baths with oatmeal tied up in a hankerchief ( and I bet you wondered what to do with them 
) she was completely healed by the time we took our yearly trip to the mountains :D</p>
<p>I also have had Hep B without knowing it.
I was tested for Hep as are most pregnant moms. I was negative. When I went to give blood ( as I had been for years ) a few years later when I stopped nursing, I was told that I had antibodies to Hep B and they couldn’t take my blood. My Dr. tested me twice to confirm, and I had a subsequent test. Have no idea where I caught it, but I was never sick more than a mild cold. weird. No one else in family has it.</p>
<p>The pharma companies might not make as much money if we had more nutritious foods and if we all had better hygiene ( like not shaking hands if you have an illness), but vitamins and rest have served my family pretty well.</p>
<p>Vaccines are not per se a big money maker for a pharmaceutical company
Really?
Gardisil has made over $1 BILLION for Merck since it’s release and that is just a small section of who they can target. Females between ages of 11 & 26. They are asking that FDA approve the shot for women up to 45 next month. No word on whether they are asking for approval for males to get the vaccine</p>
<p>“When I went to give blood ( as I had been for years ) a few years later when I stopped nursing, I was told that I had antibodies to Hep B and they couldn’t take my blood.” </p>
<p>Any chance they used a dirty needle or did not change gloves between donors?</p>
<p>So you are hypothesizing that when I went to give blood they transmitted the Hep B to me at that time?
Id never thought of that.
This was the timeline (approx). I gave blood when younger D was 3 1/2. I gave blood again about 9 months later. ( [Where my older Ds platelet transfusions had originated](<a href=“http://www.psbc.org/home/index.htm”>http://www.psbc.org/home/index.htm</a>). With the 2nd donation, I was notified of the nonaccepted status and of the cause. ( they don’t take the time to notify people with just one donation)
I * know* I wasn’t sick between the time I gave blood the first time and when I recieved the letter, so that is even more puzzling- I don’t think I could have been exposed at the blood bank, because I would have had,it for a while to develop the antibodies. Wouldn’t I?</p>
<p>BTW my D *is *getting immunized for Hep A & B, in preparation for her trip to Ghana
But I don’t think those vaccines are appropriate for forced blanket immunizations</p>
<p>I don’t know enough to make the judgment about these required vaccines, but I do know that getting the required physicals and vaccine records is ornerus for me. In our state we need interval athletic forms for each sport and programs. With 5 kids, all very active in sports and in schools, I was filling out an awful lot of forms at the last minute, turning them in so my kid could try out or get in the door. Throw in the dental, eye, allergies and illnesses and it can drive you mad. I sympathize greatly with those whose lives are even more challenging than mine. I have a car, I don’t work outside of the home, I have a private physician, access to a copier, fax, etc. And it’s still difficult. </p>
<p>It used to be that the required vaccinations were done in the city schools to make it easier for these families. I think they should resume this if they are having so much trouble. To throw folks in jail or fine them, particularly when they are already so challenged is just hurting the kids more. I wonder how many kids are not in school because the parent can’t get it together to fulfill these requirements.</p>
<p>As for chicken pox, I lived in abject fear of it when my middle child was treated for cancer. I knew an infant that died of the same strain that my oldest child got. I also knew an older woman who nearly died when she got it. How well the vaccine works is debatable, but it seems to at least temper the virulence of the disease if the child is innoculated.</p>
<p>TOM–no fears. I am pro-vaccine. Thought I made that clear. My kids are adults who had all their reqwuired shots, no problem. I am questioning the Public Health rationale for two specific vaccines, and whether that warranted kicking kids out of school, fine, and jail.</p>
<p>I am not saying chickenpox vaccination is a bad idea, and that avoiding chickenpox is not a terrible thing, so–get if for your kids if you want. Or take your kids to chickenpox parties if you want (never heard of a pertussis party, or a TB party, or a polio party–quite different level of disease.)</p>
<p>Schools are places of compulsary attendance, thus controlling those diseases whose dangers require herd immunity is a public health question. </p>
<p>I don’t see that for these two particular cases.</p>
<p>Actually, NJ does now require varicella vaccine for kindergarten entry. If you google “Vaccine Preventable Disease Program, NJDHSS”, you’ll find the info there. I found a site that reports only Idaho, Vermont and Wyoming do not require varicella vaccine to enter school. As a school nurse, I see many childhood illnesses and diseases. Last year, we had 22 cases of chicken pox, nineteen alone in one classroom. Every affected student had been immunized (per our state law) at an early age, and most of these students were in the third and fourth grade. Although our state has not yet required a second varicella vaccine before kindergarten entry, I feel that may eventually be the case. My DD had a horrible case of the chickenpox long before the vaccine was offered. Had it been around when she was younger, I absolutely would have gotten it for her. She was miserable with a horrible case … from head to toe and everywhere (and I do mean everywhere) in between.</p>
<p>Washington does now require varicella- however parents can object for religious, medical or philosophical reasons.</p>
<p>[Vaccines</a> cut disease deaths by 99 percent-US study | Reuters](<a href=“http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN13599072]Vaccines”>http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN13599072)</p>
<p>This community where the threats of jail and fines was on the news last night. It appears to be a case of “we’re at the end of our rope” trying to get parents to do something. Politically, you consider this suicide, but it appears to be working as they are coming in now… The courthouse is even set up to immunize kids while their parents explain to the judge why they hadn’t bothered to do so for the last 8 months…</p>
<p>“my soaps were on”
“I just am too busy”
etc…</p>
<p>It appears apathy more than objection is the case in this community…</p>
<p>Im hoping that the CDC will extrapolate those vaccines that they found most effective in their study and which need to be more carefully weighed.</p>
<p>You can’t really lump all vaccines in same catagory, that like lumping all chemicals together.</p>
<p>Because no vaccine is without risk, when medical and public health professionals recommend vaccines for infants and children, they must balance the scientific evidence of benefits, costs, and risks. This balance changes as diseases are controlled or eliminated.</p>
<p>^
[CDC</a> Study Links Thimerosal In Vaccines To Motor/Phonic Tics And Deficits In Attention, Behavior Control, Verbal IQ](<a href=“http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/83771.php]CDC”>http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/83771.php)
[WorldNetDaily:</a> CDC vaccines study slammed as cover-up](<a href=“http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36023]WorldNetDaily:”>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36023)
[Vaccine</a> Safety - Concerns - Frequently Asked Questions about Cancer, Simian Virus 40 (SV40), and Polio Vaccine](<a href=“Vaccine Information and Safety Studies | Vaccine Safety | CDC”>Vaccine Information and Safety Studies | Vaccine Safety | CDC)
[CIDRAP</a> >> Smallpox shots caused unexpected side effects in CDC study](<a href=“http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/bt/smallpox/news/april2905smallpox.html]CIDRAP”>http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/bt/smallpox/news/april2905smallpox.html)
[Toxic</a> Tipping Point](<a href=“http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2004/03/02_354.html]Toxic”>Toxic Tipping Point – Mother Jones)</p>