<p>So when Emperor Bush signed the law banning torture today (passed by a large majority of Congress, including most members of his own party), he reserved the right to give himself a waiver as commander-in-chief!?!</p>
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<p>This guy is a piece of work.</p>
<p>The definition of torture is what is at issue. Laura Bush is still going to be allowed to read children’s books to captured terrorists until they spill, which I think is fair and reasonable.</p>
<p>Laura. That’s her name. Couldn’t remember it for a while and wasn’t important enough to google. I kept thinking, Karl, but I knew it wasn’t the right spelling.</p>
<p>He make and interprets the law to suit him, denies knowing anything and gets others to do his dirty work</p>
<p>And we have three more years</p>
<p>think I am gonna cry</p>
<p>This guy thinks he is on God’s side doing the Lord’s work…there is no reason to compromise when that is the situation. I just hope he doesn’t decide to run a third term since he is above the law and constitution. </p>
<p>Driver, did you know that they cleaned up the book “GOOD NIGHT MOON” and took an ashtray out of the illustrations.</p>
<p>“Laura Bush is still going to be allowed to read children’s books to captured terrorists until they spill, which I think is fair and reasonable.”
-driver</p>
<p>That’s exactly the kind of “cruel and unusual punishment” the Congress had in mind! Given a choice, I think the prisoners would prefer traditional torture.</p>
<p>He also gave himself a waiver when it came to serving in the National Guard and learning something in college besides partying.</p>
<p>He’s special.</p>
<p>Back to dig’s OP: How did President Bush’s statement differ from what McCain himself indicated would be his own position, if he were ever elected president?<br>
Here’s what he said, about his own bill: “You do what you have to do.” </p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=4355[/url]”>http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=4355</a></p>
<p>This is the main problem I have with the McCain position. He openly says that in a “ticking time bomb” scenario in which the fate of an entire city may rest, that a president would and should do whatever is necessary to save the city and as a result of having saved said city the public will clearly exonerate him for breaking the law. </p>
<p>If we have learned anything from the last few years of intelligence blunders, it is that there will likely never be a situation where we have 100 percent certainty that the ticking time bomb is about to go off. Instead, the situation that McCain’s law and his personal caveat will create is one in which a president may have a high level certainty that a major segment of the American public is at risk but will be forced to temper the potential saving of those people with the possibility that the intelligence may be faulty and that he would, instead of being hailed a hero, be prosecuted for his crime. </p>
<p>Personally, I don’t want my president to be forced to make those decisions. I have little doubt that Bush and McCain have the moral character to take that risk if it meant preventing the mass extermination of American citizens, but I think there are too many potential presidents who would rather risk our lives than their presidency.</p>
<p>No one hear even discusses that former interogators say torture doesn’t really work</p>
<p>but guess that is irrelevent, cause its those Iraqs that killed all those Americans in NYC…no wait it was Saudis</p>
<p>And I guess if you feel that being an AMereican means losing what it is to BE an American, like personal liberty, justice, etc and that we are now doing the same things that Saddam did, well I guess you have what you want</p>
<p>What are we doing with torture that is so different from that man?</p>
<p>If you want to treat human beings that haven’t done anything wrong, and with the release of some that hve been tortured having done nothing wrong, if you want to act like the North Vietnamese did, then we are worse than they are, cause we are supposed to be an example to the world, a beacon of rights, freedom, rules, a constitution, and democracy, but guess those aren’t important</p>
<p>OU founding fathers got it right, these leaders we have, are a disgrace to the constitution, to humanity, to what they call Christian Values, oh yeah, Jesus would have tortured</p>
<p>My God, it saddens me the selfishness of some Americans, who are willing to do anything for freedoms that are slowly eroding away in the name of Freedom</p>
<p>Amen, cgm!</p>
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The problem with the left is that they equate anything other than what is specified by the Geneva convention as “torture”. There is a significant amount that can be done to get intelligence that falls far short of what most people would call torture. And these methods have been proven to work. The reason that the plot to explode a radiological bomb was broken up and the person captured was because we caught the mastermind of 9/11 and used coercive techniques to get information from him. Personally, I don’t lose any sleep if we make things uncomfortable for such an animal if it saves innocent lives and untold economic ruin. Anyone who claims that techniques beyond “name, rank and serial number” don’t work is just plain wrong or hopelessly naieve.</p>
<p>Yikes–the hate-Bush contigent is so obsessed, it is on this blog.</p>
<p>mombo1 - just Thank G-d that the hate-Bush group doesn’t run the country. Remember this and work/contribute that much harder in the coming years.</p>
<p>AMEN BigGreen!</p>
<p>Excellent op-ed out today on this subject. Mark Steyn.
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<p><a href=“http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn08.html[/url]”>http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn08.html</a></p>
<p>How do we win the war on terrosim? What is victory, or is it never ending, which suits the powers that be just fine</p>
<p>Remember the war on rdugs, that was a joke</p>
<p>And gee, the Northern Ireland problems have almost stopped due to negotations</p>
<p>Imagine if Enlgand had invaded Ireland, or had some here and raided Irshi American homes cause we had connections to some Irish Folks</p>
<p>If England had tapped your phones, read your mail, locked up your sons because you have support for the IDEA of England getting out of Ireland after all the years of imperial rule, would you not feel violated</p>
<p>Why do we have the Bill of Rights, and what the ($#$ are we protecting by eroding those rights</p>
<p>WHat freedoms will you give up to keep your freedoms? What rights are you willing to give away to have rights?</p>
<p>The short sighted arogrance, that well, so long as they don’t come after ME, I don’t care about others rights- very selfish indeed</p>
<p>With regards to torture, guess if your son was captured and had what we have done (which is documented and what we have seen in pictures is minor compared to what has been proven), if your son was treated that way by say, gee Saddam, I would think you would call it torture, but I guess when it comes to being human, some people think anything goes so long as it doesn’t personally affect you</p>
<p>We know have no right to say, hey your tortured our people, that is bad, cause, we do it ourselves</p>
<p>Our soildiers have no Geneva Protection themselves anymore because our President says we can do anything we please, to protect ourselves</p>
<p>But protect ourselves from what</p>
<p>Did we invade Sauid Arabia cause thats where the hijackers came from? No, we attacked a country that NEVER attacked us</p>
<p>And in Afghanistan, the situation is getting worse by the day, but, heck, nevermind about that</p>
<p>And the situation in Iraq is deteroirating by the HOUR, and our boys and girls are dying, not their faut, but the fault of leaders who haven’t a clue</p>
<p>Read about the body armor that could have saved lives, but the judgemenot of the brass was shortsighted and misjudged</p>
<p>Do you not think the President has any responibilty to be a beacon of fairness and example in this world</p>
<p>And, reember to think about your son or daughter being tortured by our people, and remember, its not our soildiers doing the interrogations, its often private contractors who anwer to noone</p>
<p>But guess that would be okay with you, if your son was captured and subjected to whatever- waterboarding, hitting, and almost anything that doesn’t cause death</p>
<p>that is our standard now, if it doesn’t cause death or “great” bodily injury, anything else is fair game, if its okay to treat your child like that, then I guess its okay with you</p>
<p>ANd don’t say, well my son never did anything wrong, many of those we tortured in Iraq didn’t either</p>
<p>Mr. B, they digitally removed the cigarette from the hand of the illustrator in his photo. You can see it here. <a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/books/17moon.html?ex=1136869200&en=51cf6f89b11d1fca&ei=5070[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/books/17moon.html?ex=1136869200&en=51cf6f89b11d1fca&ei=5070</a></p>
<p>CGM, you have no idea what you are talking about. Can you point to any individual in Iraq which “we” tortured? I presume you are talking about Abu Ghraib where some out of control national guardsman committed criminal acts for which they are being punished and for which the investigation had been started long before CBS decided that it was OK to inflame the Arab world if it meant making the entire US look bad. </p>
<p>As far as how I would feel about it if it were my son, there is no question the amount of relief that I would feel to see a picture of him with women’s panties on his head versus the alternative of him not having a head to put them on.</p>