<p>My son has gotten into most of the schools he applied to, but has only gotten substantial aid to his least favorites. His favorites are the schools with the well known names that are excellent schools with students who are all in the top 10% of their high school class. The schools which are more affordable are state schools which have good reputations but with maybe only half of the students being comparable to those in the private schools he got into. Although I really don’t want to go into major debt to fund his college education and I really do believe he can get a good education at these public schools, I am worried about his peer group. He now goes to a very competitive high school where all the students are really smart. What are people’s experiences, thoughts on this subject, etc??</p>
<p>If the public schools are large enough there’s a chance he could find the kind of peer group he wants, especially if he’s in a program that tends to attract those types of students.</p>
<p>How about the honors programs? There are sure to be like-minded kids there. He’s also not going to be the only kid choosing a state school for cost over a private school. It’s the practical choice and plenty of other kids are making the same decision.</p>
<p>S2 is in the Honor’s program at a large public in electrical engineering. Though there are 50,000 at the school, he says he is with the same 100 kids for his EE major courses and the same 300 for general engineering courses. There are 500 in the Honors Program and they did a great job the first couple of years keeping these kids together. Thanks to extremely generous merit scholarships, we are quite happy writing out a tiny little check each year to cover tuition.</p>
<p>I guess you need to factor in the strength of the major at each of these schools. Not all kids at the top of their high school class are made equal…</p>
<p>The thing is, you can’t be friends with 30,000 people, or even 1000 people. The peer group that matters most is your close friends and the classmates in your major who will share your upper-level classes (<100 people).</p>
<p>Now, I don’t claim that there is no cost to being at a state school with a wider range of kids. It is a really nice luxury to be at, say, Princeton, where you can enroll in any course in any subject, or join any group, and be surrounded by universally bright and academically focused peers. But it is a luxury, not a necessity, for a good education AND a good college experience. At a solid public flagship, you can surround yourself with like-minded people most of the time. You just have to put in more effort than you would at Princeton. You may have to choose your major and your courses with a sharper eye, thinking about which ones will attract the students you want to learn with. You may have to actively seek out friends rather than having soulmates fall into your lap. You may have to suck it up and take a few dull intro classes that are aimed at less prepared students. But you can find your people. Every large public flagship has them.</p>
<p>If there is an option for honors housing at the state schools, choose it.</p>
<p>Just my experience – My daughter who is off to college this year spent her first 10 years of schooling in very competitive academic magnets. We moved before her sophomore year, and she attended a regular public high school.</p>
<p>My kids have both positive and negative things to say about the experience. They do, however, feel that the level of discourse and commitment is lower than they’d like to see.</p>
<p>I teach high school, and I know the caliber of students who attend state schools, and attend honors programs. There are some very bright kids, and some very motivated kids. There are also some kids who are neither.</p>
<p>I’ve attended both types, and there are pros and cons to each. I’ve meet great people at both types odd schools.</p>
<p>Can you find the smart, motivated kids at a state school? Sure. </p>
<p>Do you sometimes find yourself feeling like a nerd? I believe so.</p>
<p>Is it sometimes frustrating? I think so.</p>
<p>There are advantages, though. Those people are a much higher percentage of the people your son will meet and have to work with after college. </p>
<p>They may not represent a stable a peer group (state schools generally have lower on-time graduation rates) and your son may have to work harder to find his niche and find peers that share goods intellectual passions. He may have an easier time finding kids to watch the game with, or go hiking with, etc. There are positives and negatives to both
experiences.
How does your son feel?</p>
<p>As long as he goes odd with a positive attitude, I think he’ll have a great experience.</p>
<p>Thoughts, I too, have a very similar situation. My son had SC 2280, ACT 35, 7 AP’s, 3.5 at the most competitive Independent school in our area. A very , very highly academic environment, with strong Ivy applicants. We knew FA for private schools would not be sufficient, so he will attend one of our state schools. He will as will your son find his tribe, maybe fall flat on his bum a time or two, but he will succeed. And this will be his all his, he will have done this on his own, and he will mature and yes, gain an education that money cannot buy. Honors and this and that will be available, and he will shine, and maybe find a friend in the oddest place and create the next ‘APPLE’ or whatever, so give him your support and a push out the door come August and know you have given him every opportunity so it is his time to seize the day.</p>
<p>Good chance your child will find a peer group through classes, clubs and other special interests that he pursues. Not everyone at Princeton (or whatever top university) is nice, kind, fun to be around or worth knowing. You know, the average ‘Joe’ can be a decent person and good friend, too.</p>
<p>Being at a top school will prevent a student from getting lulled into complacency about academics and career planning. D’s friends who attend the flagship think it’s great if they have any summer job that isn’t at a fast food place. At D’s “top” school, students would only consider it a good job if it’s a well-paying internship in your field at a recognized company.</p>
<p>However, it can be an exhausting and pressure-filled experience to always be around so many brilliant, high-achieving kids and perhaps feel you aren’t keeping up. It’s also tough to compete with them for jobs when companies come to campus to interview.</p>
<p>So, your student’s personality will play a role in this decision. Is your son outgoing? If so, the social piece should work out fine and he will find his intellectual peers at a lower-ranked school. Is he self-confident about his abilities and internally driven, or is he externally motivated and easily intimidated and/or discouraged? If the latter, then a state school may be a better fit for him anyway.</p>
<p>Does your son want to be a minnow in the pond or a big fish in the pond? When you go to a school where you are in the top 10%, you are a big fish. Teachers will recognize you for your academic abilities and often, opportunities will come your way as a result. Minnows are not often recognized.</p>
<p>My oldest went to a school where he was a big fish (along with a big fish merit scholarship) and he ended up with tremendous opportunities. He would not have been very likely to have had these opportunities at the other school he was considering (where he’d have been a minnow). </p>
<p>As others have said, there are pros and cons to both situations.</p>
<p>I agree the big fish/little fish question is often important. But imo it has a lot to do with the department, itself, not the whole school’s rep. That’s what I always come back to: take a hard look at what the depts (his interest areas) at the various colleges actually offer. Look at the course offerings, the profs’ backgrounds and interests- and how active they are in those. It’s not just a matter of the competitiveness of the student body, but what he stands to gain within his specialty. Many colleges with less stellar overall reps can be surprisingly solid in various majors. Good luck.</p>
<p>It’s also important to note that not all flagships and honors programs are created equal. There are some really excellent programs, and then there are some that are little more the a label. Make sure your student looks really closely into the ones they are considering, what’s offered, how it relates to their intended major, and speaks with students currently in the program if at all possible. There really isn’t a blanket answer on this, it’s very specific to the school.</p>
<p>Ditto posts 10, 11 and 12. It is better to be at the public flagship with a top 10-20 grad dept and good selection of Honors course in one’s field than at an Ivy with only a so-so program (computer science is one such field). The best fit school will motivate him the most to do his best. Money worries can downgrade the fit of a school. Have your son make lists of his priorities then rank the schools on them. He may change his perceptions.</p>
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<p>In computer science, you can have the best of both worlds. You can go to Cornell. </p>
<p>(Sorry to sidetrack the thread, but I have to get in an occasional plug for my alma mater, especially when it’s well deserved.)</p>
<p>Another thing to remember–a lot of the kids who weren’t the achievers in high school turn into different kids in college. They mature and turn on their academic jets.</p>
<p>Think back a few years. There were students who were mature and focused as high school freshmen; there were other students who didn’t become serious students until junior or senior year. These kids might already have been knocked out of the competition for valedictorian–but it doesn’t mean they should be dismissed as serious students. A lot of these kids might not have been in the running for the top elite schools and you will find them at “solid” schools like those your student is considering.</p>
<p>And there also are those students who took it easy all through high school but turn over a new leaf in college. </p>
<p>Your son will find his tribe. (and yes, of course, there still may be those students who are still immature–but they will either mature or disappear in your student’s rear view mirror).</p>