My son is in ninth grade and we’re having the very early conversations about what he might be looking for in a college. He wants to major in CS. He says he thinks small classes would be good for him for humanities classes, but thinks really big classes would be fine for his CS classes.
My default preference is for LAC’s and small classes, but I already went to college. The project will be finding the right place for him. My assumption would be that small CS classes, especially upper level classes, would be better than really big ones, for basically the same reasons a small English class is better than a really big one. But really, I’m just guessing.
Are all CS classes just lectures where it doesn’t really matter how many people are in the room or do they/can they take on more of a seminar, small class type feel, where discussion, the opportunity to have your questions answered and a chance to get to know professors really makes a difference?
Smaller classes with more discussion can be helpful to some students, although a smaller class does not necessarily mean that it will have more discussion. Instructors in large classes can and do take questions. Large classes at research universities are typically supplemented by smaller sections with TAs. For some students, this can be an advantage, since that means that there are more instructors (the faculty lead instructor plus all of the TAs) to ask questions with outside of class during their office hours.
The rapid rise in popularity of CS means that, at many schools, CS departments have had to choose between:
a. Letting class sizes (particularly introductory level ones) get larger.
b. Limiting access to CS classes.
c. Limiting the number of students who can major in CS.
Class sizes can sometimes be seen in on-line class schedules at some schools.
Even some of the smaller schools have large size for CS classes (Harvey Mudd, for example). But my Mudder (who was a CS major with no prior CS experience for a while) said it was fine. They had tons of opportunities in lab time, tutoring sessions, office hours, mentoring from older students, etc. to get help. She never felt like she was struggling due to the lecture size. She switched majors eventually, but not because of the class size, but because she went back to her first love of Physics.
I’d think the bigger question for CS at LACs is the variety and depth of courses they offer, especially if your son comes in with some CS background, wants to go pretty deep with it, and/or has particular interests he wants to explore. My son is studying CS at UIUC, and he didn’t seriously consider any LACs, both because they didn’t fit him, and they generally didn’t have the depth of CS course offerings he wanted. The link @ucbalumnus provides shows some data he put together regarding CS offerings at LACs, and is very useful. You can also look at the size (e.g., number of faculty) of departments. I also remember someone mentioning a website or publication about teaching CS at LACs, but I can’t find that now. Not sure if this is the same group:
Small class sizes VERY important in CS. Take a Data Abstraction class. Prof puts up a theory on the board, then assigns everyone a coding problem based on that theory. At my S’s school, Trinity U, classes are very small. As a result, the Prof goes around and checks with each of the students, literally looks over their shoulders, as they each work on the problem at their workstation. He then assists individually, and can lift recurring errors or issues and discuss them class-wide to help teach.
My wife and I watched this process during a couple classes we sat in on, and were very impressed. No one can “hide”. No one is going to get lost or left behind. Everyone is going to learn the problem.
This is invaluable.
Plus, you actually can have meaningful one-on-one time with the Prof’s during office hours to work on specific issues. This is impossible if the Prof has too many students in their classes. There are weeks where our S spends as much time in office hours as he does classroom hours, combined with ongoing feedback via emails.
To me, this is what you are paying for in higher education–actual meaningful access to the Professors. This is how you learn.
15 students in a class v. 75 is a major difference in the attention you will receive.
I (gently) suggest putting issues like CS class size on the back burner for now. Your son is still very young for this level of college discussion.
For now, he should be exploring options not focusing on one particular discipline. His preferred style of learning may change over the next three years. His academic interests may change, or he may find a slightly different discipline that involves problem solving skills.
Next spring, and certainly junior year, visit colleges and, if he is still interested in CS, have him sit in CS classes and then ask.
@csdad2- since your son is at UIUC, what is his experience with large classes? My S is likely headed to UIUC (CS +X) but also likes another school, unranked, with small classes. Does your S get the instruction and help he needs in his CS classes from the TAs, and office hours?
But trust me when I tell you that because of certain things about my son, it’s important to start general conversations about what types of schools very early. The absolute conviction that he will major in CS and go on to a career in game development is his, not mine. In fact, one of the things that’s been important for me to start telling him early, very early, is that it’s possible that he will change his mind about his major because it happens, even to people who are very, very sure at 14 or 18 about what they want to study and that it’s possible that he’ll stay in CS but find a new area or new career goal. If I let him spend too long thinking that it’s definitely going to be CS and game development he can get so stuck on those ideas that he won’t find it possible to move off of them, even if they no longer make him happy. My goal in having such early conversations with him is to keep him informed and flexible.
So one of the things we’ve been talking about is the difference in experiences at LAC’s vs large research universities. He made the comment about small humanities classes vs larger CS classes and I figured I might as well ask.
@ColdinMinny , thanks. That’s a really interesting point.