Importance of Wardrobe?

Parent Cafe
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<p>With the exceptions of most mainstream weddings and funerals, this is really a YMMV deal depending on the parties involved or in cases of businesses like fancy high-end restaurants which usually require dress codes, prevailing economic conditions. </p>

<p>Not every parents of one’s SO, boss, or dates expect such a high level of formality. If anything, some of the dates, SO parents, and most bosses went out of their way to insist I come dressed comfortably and not to worry about formalities…including sartorial ones.* </p>

<p>In these areas, your remarks, while valid to some extent, remind me of some older relatives who are stuck in the 1950’s regarding what they regarded as appropriate dress norms. </p>

<p>Regarding NYC high end restaurants or fancy venues like the Metropolitan Opera, they haven’t seemed to care as much for dressing up in the last several years due to the economy and other factors. </p>

<p>While some of the restaurant/venue proprietors/staff weren’t happy about it, they kept their feelings well-hidden as they didn’t want to offend the few paying customers and possibly jeopardize possibilities of repeat business or in the case of the waiters, a possibly decent/generous tip. </p>

<p>Granted, as the economy improves, they’ll probably re-enact the once strict enforcement of the formal/fancy dress code again. </p>

<p>Also, many religious establishments have become much more informal than the ones you probably remember. Most of the ones I’ve been to, including some long established ones** no longer expect suits or formal dress as a prerequisite for attending…and state as much on their programs/bulletins. </p>

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<li>I usually went business casual in such cases as that’s what I wore to most of my workplaces.<br></li>
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<p>** Some were founded in the 17th century.</p>

102

<p>Oh good lord, cobrat. People wear something other than jeans and t-shirts to dinner because they want to look nice. Not because the restaurant requires it. There’s no in between for you, is there? It’s either comfy jeans and t-shirts, or oppressive, snooty formality capitulating to The Man. </p>

<p>It’s immature how you see nice clothing as “snooty.” It’s like the 5 yo who complains when he puts on a collared shirt to go to Thanksgiving.</p>

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<p>“Not every parents of one’s SO, boss, or dates expect such a high level of formality.”</p>

<p>Who said that the parents, boss, etc “expected” it? How odd that you think the only reason to put oneself together nicely is because other people force you to. </p>

<p>“If anything, some of the dates, SO parents, and most bosses went out of their way to insist I come dressed comfortably and not to worry about formalities…including sartorial ones.*”</p>

<p>I suspect they were just being gracious since they knew you weren’t able to do any better.</p>

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<p>“Also, many religious establishments have become much more informal than the ones you probably remember.”</p>

<p>Doesn’t matter to me. I think it’s a sign of respect when entering someone’s house of worship. </p>

<p>" Most of the ones I’ve been to, including some long established ones** no longer expect suits or formal dress as a prerequisite for attending…and state as much on their programs/"</p>

<p>Right. But I’m not TALKING about suits or formal dress. I’m talking about one step up from jeans and sneakers, which you keep conflating with fancy / formal.</p>

105

<p>Expecting someone to tailor one’s dress to an occasion is not oppression, and if your unreconstructed hippie acquaintance couldn’t find a better reason than being asked to wear a tie to participate in 60s radicalism, I don’t have much respect for him. </p>

<p>I’m glad society has become more informal, and perhaps it will become even more so in the future, but until then someone isn’t being a bold iconoclast by not dressing up for an interview, he’s being a petulant child. In the case of injustice, it is noble to resist conforming to a social norm. In the case of a code of attire that is arguably a little too stuffy, it is just foolish. </p>

<p>I agree with you that it is totally conceivable that someone might make it to age 22 without a business suit, but I do think that most people, regardless of socioeconomic background, have some occasion to wear something nicer than a T-shirt and jeans - a button down shirt and chinos, for instance. And I say this as someone who can’t remember the last time I wore anything more elaborate than a nice sweater and tasteful jeans to a restaurant, unless I just happened to be wearing a skirt that day. Which, shockingly, I sometimes do, because I happen to like skirts and dresses, which I usually buy slightly out of season for little more than the price of - you guessed it - a pair of jeans.</p>

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<p>And in the process of making heated replies, you seemed to have neglected to read the following:</p>

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<p>Last I checked, business casual doesn’t include uncollared t-shirts, jeans, or sneakers. :D</p>

<p>But don’t let that stop you from making more heated replies. </p>

<p>Very informative, interesting, and entertaining. :)</p>

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<p>He viewed the more formal stuffy dress code norms of the early '60s and before as interrelated with and symptoms of other manifestations of oppressive establishment norms…such as the Vietnam era draft, mandatory ROTC on many non-military college campuses for all male students, bigotry/discrimination against various minority groups during that era and before, and more.</p>

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<p>Airlines today often do have dress codes for those flying on friends and family (of airline employees) tickets.</p>

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<p>I know that my body proportions do not match standard sizes in dress clothes very well, so I would have to look for obscure sizes or made-to-measure in dress shirts and suit jackets.</p>

108

<p>Nice post, apprenticeprof. Maybe Cobrat’s post is simply means, or is his way of telling us, he doesn’t own a suit.</p>

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<p>That’s fine for you. </p>

<p>However, unless you’re charged with/are eligible to vote on making the rules for a given house of worship, neither you nor anyone else has a right to dictate to others what’s respectful or not for other religious practitioners, those in charge of making rules for a given house of worship, or to critique them for feeling differently.<br>
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After all, our constitution does give us the right to believe or not believe as we wish and for religious institutions and/or their congregation to make rules regarding whether they’ll mandate a dress code or not for worshipers and visitors.</p>

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<p>For Pete’s sake, Cobrat. PG is not dictating anything. She is indicating what she feels is respectful. In my house of worship, some folks come casual to regular weekly services, but for high holiday services most everyone is dressed more formally. Please stop making a mountain out of a molehill.</p>

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<p>… Still, very interesting and entertaining to see how some folks get riled up when someone questions or disagrees with something. </p>

<p>Especially issues which there is some room for “live and let live” and where arguably, the world would be a happier place for it…like sartorial standards. </p>

<p>Then again, this reminds me of a long interesting discussion I had with a longtime friendly senior-aged female neighbor about aesthetics in clothing and furnishings and she joking said, “Of course you’re not as into it as I am, you’re male.”</p>

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<p>For heavens sake cobrat. Can anyone express a thought without you taking it to the moon? PG did not stomp on your constitutional rights when she shared her opinion about respectful dress in houses of worship. I agreed in part with you that there are some situations where people dress more casually and agreed with PG that there are circumstances where nicer dress is appropriate. Please stop trying to pick a fight and just let people have a conversation. Good grief. Enough.</p>

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<p>Ok, well that’s just silly. </p>

<p>And I don’t buy that the appropriate time to rebel “against the man” would be at a funeral. You don’t show up to a church or synagogue or funeral home to pay respect to a beloved friend or family member in ratty jeans and t-shirt. Even college kids can figure out that you wear your best to a funeral. Your “best” may not be an expensive suit, but a decent shirt, pair of pants and shoes is something everyone should have in the closet, even if only rarely used. I never wear dresses and my usual garb is scrubs or comfy jeans, but I sure do have a nice pair of black pants in the closet that I always wear to funerals, and I would NEVER show up to a job interview in grubby clothes. That really should be a no brainer.</p>

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<p>Okay, that is so over the top. Really, really, really over the top.</p>

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<p>Apologies to the OP for this thread being once again derailed by unrelated and ridiculous side commentary.</p>

<p>To get back to topic, OP- wear something dapper. Perhaps a button down shirt, nice sweater and dress slacks, or shirt and sportcoat. Roll up a tie and put it in your sportcoat pocket-- just in case. My DS drove to a holiday party at the company’ s offices in a nearby city (too far to go back). It was “business casual”. HE was the only one without a sportcoat. He felt out of place. Next time he’ll put one in the car with a tie rolled up in the pocket-- just in case.</p>

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<p>“However, unless you’re charged with/are eligible to vote on making the rules for a given house of worship, neither you nor anyone else has a right to dictate to others what’s respectful or not for other religious practitioners, those in charge of making rules for a given house of worship, or to critique them for feeling differently.”</p>

<p>I have every right to have an opinion, cobrat. I’m not “enforcing” anything. </p>

<p>I think it’s amusing how your tech/nerd friends are "allowed " to have opinions that dressing in something better is suck-up behavior, and your hippie friends are "allowe to have the opinion that wearing a tie is oppression of the highest order, but I’m not “allowed” to have my opinion?</p>

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<p>“I know that my body proportions do not match standard sizes in dress clothes very well, so I would have to look for obscure sizes or made-to-measure in dress shirts and suit jackets.”</p>

<p>Do you have a third arm or something? Because every time this topic comes up, you always talk about how difficult it is for young men to find suits that fit. I gotta say, I don’t see it at all. Fascinating how I can go look at pictures from any fraternity formal event and the guys are all perfectly able to find decent well-fitting suits.</p>

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<p>PG - at least you have your own opinion.</p>

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<p>jym, DH and I were at a party Friday night. Invite said “no tie” and so he purposefully decided to leave his at the office. Everyone else there wore one. AGH!</p>

<p>S1 has always been a jeans and t-shirt guy. When he started qualifying for some national competitions, we recommended a new suit (since he had long since grown out of his Bar Mtizvah suit). He was skeptical until he put it on, along with a gorgeous geeky tie and purple button down (his nod to individuality). Confidence! Authority! He stood up tall! He’d look you straight in the eye! It made such a difference in his perspective and the self he presented to the world and he immediately saw the results.</p>

<p>Got the suit at Men’s Wearhouse and it was the best $300 (including heavy alterations) we ever spent on him. He wore it all through college and I think it still fits him today. Wish my ILs had done the same for DH. He had polyester suits when he was out interviewing prior to graduation.</p>

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<p>I think my S’s suit is from Men’s Wearhouse too. We got him a suit and a blazer when he went off to school. He’s had plenty of occasions to wear them. He was president of a campus organization and introduced speakers, where a suit or at least a sportcoat was entirely appropriate. He had various fraternity formals. He went to his cousin’s first communion at church and then a reception afterwards. And of course he’s had occasion to wear nice sweater and pants. Like any other college kid he wears jeans and t shirts 99% of the time. The assertion that one’s parents need to be “upper class fashionistas” is, as usual, ridiculous and over the top.</p>

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<p>Gotta say…we were at DH’s company party on Friday. DH frequently says there is an age group in the middle (30 ish to 40ish) that does NOT know how to dress. He has had to take these folks aside and remind them that the office is business casual, not shabby chic. At the party, this was notable. The new 20 something employees and spouses were dressed to the nines (it was a dress up event…dinner and dancing at a large hotel ballroom). The over 40 or so crowd was dressed to the nines (hey…it’s a good time for me to wear the gorgeous silk slacks and jacket I have…and my nicer jewelry). The group in the middle…some t shirts, less than nice khaki slacks, sneakers, even a hoodie or two. I wondered if they looked around and saw everyone else…or not. My guess is they looked around and thought everyone else was stuffy.</p>

<p>Too bad. I DO agree with PG, there are events every year that require nicer than everyday clothes…and shoes. </p>

<p>No one here is telling the OP to buy an Armani suit. They are saying…dress to impress…which is at least a few levels above jeans.</p>