Apparently, reading another thread, one might fantasize instead about spending $250K+ on a high performance vehicle. http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1786791-best-high-performance-sports-vehicle-250k.html#latest IMO the education is worth the $. The car is not. Carry on.
Well, fantasies are free but thanks for the snakiness it was expected.
Being a well rounded adult is about the individual, not some magic associated with the diploma. But the sort of kid who can’t or won’t pick up some breadth in college isn’t likely to go off seeking it on his own.
Btw, critical thinking skills are hard to come by. Life proves that, daily.
Re: post # 41:
Just disagreeing that a liberal arts education/liberal arts skills is/are “mumbo jumbo” but a $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ car is somehow worthy of fantasy. Different values, different priorities. Go to a LAC and drive a Honda. Better value, IMO.
Asked, and answered.
Re: "All that talk about a liberal arts education developing well rounded citizens is mostly mumbo jumbo. "
I heard that some computer science majors think many required computer science courses are mumbo jumbo. Many do not like the math-centric, computer theory aspect of computer science curriculum too.
One student in a data base class I took ages ago almost got kicked out of the classroom by our professor because he questioned whether the data base theory (and the performance evaluation aspect of data base) is useful for the student’s future career. He said he only needs to learn the commands of existing popular data base system (and almost nobody will design another data base system software – this could be true just like few will have the opportunity of designing an OS) and then some company will hire him. Why should he spend time in the classroom listening to the mumbo jumbo about data base theory?
Will our future generation of computer software engineers like this? I do not know.
Education should not be reserved for the wealthy. I question whether anyone should have to go into debt more than $100,000 to get a terminal degree. I’ve come 180 on this issue recently, just FYI. I applaud any state’s efforts to develop a $10,000 baccalaureate degree. I hope all 50 states make efforts in that direction although I won’t hold my breath and although it might mean a pay cut for the $250K a year college administrators and paper shufflers out there.
And 99% of the liberal arts mumbo jumbo can be acquired for a lot less than these uppity LA schools are charging. Just because people keep paying it doesn’t mean they are getting value equal to what they pay for. I work with a few Ivy Leagues grads. LOL. I’ll stop there just so no one gets their feelings hurt.
Try a little harder to not call them “uppity” or producing “mumbo Jumbo” whatever. If you are trying not to offend, try harder.
I also don’t think doctors or anyone going into the medical field should have to incur $250K worth of debt to get the degree as I read recently. Granted, it was anecdotal but worth mentioning. I hope new models develop and develop soon. Some of them will be oriented towards vocational education, not that there is anything wrong with that, and some will focus on LA and soft skills. The sooner the better as far as I am concerned.
@GoNoles85, you can move to Europe with their socialized education system. No need to pay tuition to attend many German universities.
Angry?
Some examples of net cost to parents by income level for a 2 parent, 2 child family, with 1 in college are below using Harvard’s Net Price Calc: I am assuming $200k in non-primary home/retirement assets (primary home and retirement are not included in assets for Harvard’s NPC):
$65k income – $0
$100k income – $5k
$125k income – $10k
$150k income – $15k
$175k income – $27k
$200k income – $46k
$225k income – $57k
$250k income – $65k (sticker price)
This result doesn’t make it look like education is reserved for the wealthy. Instead it looks like Harvard would be less expensive than state school and community college options, among most families who are not wealthy. I chose Harvard as an example because their NPC produces quick results, but it’s far from the only college whose sticker prices increases were compensated with much increased financial aid among lower and middle class families, making the college more affordable for a larger portion of US families. This pattern is particularly common among “top schools” that were the focus of this article.
99+% of students do not go to one of those meets-full-needs schools.
And the vast majority of does not meet need colleges cost well below $65k per year. The average sticker price at 4-year US colleges is less than half of that. I’d expect the most expensive “top colleges” that cost $500k/4, as described in the article, are going to have quite significant FA to make the college affordable for typical income families.
xiggi had it right in post #1. Elite private schools will be, and largely are, for the very rich and the poor. The middle class gets screwed, for lack of a better term, out of the picture. It is obscene that workers and savers with assets to show for it get less FA. Great. Let’s penalize people for working and saving and having assets.
That is bad policy.
I don’t know how merit aid works, it is probably on a car by case basis, and I am sure many of the top private schools have generous merit aid that, in some cases, brings their total costs down to about what one would pay at a public. I guess that makes everything hunky dory but I find myself getting militant about this issue for some reason.
Whenever I see numbers like this, somehow I am a little bit suspicious (that is, is it too good to be true?) likely due to my previous experience as a paying parent. (Granted, it was before the “middle class initiative.” Maybe it is different today and these schools are indeed so generous today.)
When our kid applied to college, every college gave us a big fat zero financial aid and our income in the base year was not particularly high - close to the second lowest in this table (but it was about 10 years ago.) We were not trying to find a school with merit-based financial aid back then.
@mcat2 - it’s not too good to be true, in fact Harvard families may end up paying less than these numbers, depending on their financial situation. The catch is that these numbers only apply to Harvard, and few other schools are this generous with their need-based aid.
Higher education will change. Eventually, it will change quite a lot. It has to. To suggest otherwise is to say that costs can increase toward infitity. When will it change? How will it change? These are the questions to ask. I see that already, many of our community colleges are evolving into skills training centers along the lines of what is suggested in post 39 (good post). I see certificate programs and two-year degrees in electronics, plumbing, mortuary science, and even very specific business tools like MS Office. A lot of this material is ideal for being taught via much more efficient ways using advanced technology, which can bring down the long-term costs. Much of this knowledge does not need legions of professors primarily involved in basic research to generate the basic knowledge to be taught.
The more difficult part of the question is, what happens to the traditional liberal arts? In my own personal view, the loss of the liberal arts model would be a great tragedy. Perhaps I’m being romantic and nostalgic. But I find great value in a liberal arts education. We may come to the realization as a society that while everyone needs advanced training for work, not everyone needs a full, four-year liberal arts education. And how such an education is delivered will have to change. Dramatically. But I hope that we don’t totally throw the baby out with the bath water.
Hogwash.
Middle class students go to elite schools and enjoy the benefits of financial aid, too.
@notjoe, there will always be a place for liberal arts educations in the pecking order, as these graduates possess a skill set that certain companies will always desire. But I agree that the number of programs will likely be diminished due to shrinking demand and the rise of more vocational training in colleges.
The very top ones don’t have merit aid, or very little of it. But many private colleges and universities do. Some offer it on a guaranteed for stats basis though that model seems to be more common at public Us.