<p>
No, they are not.
But do your words suggest that the girls in bikinis are doing so?</p>
<p>Damn straight. Although I doubt they have thought it through.</p>
<p>They obviously have no intention of actually having sex with the old guys who come to see the show. But what, exactly, do they think they are doing?</p>
<p>Firefighters in overalls without shirts are either:
- Doing a riff on scantily clad females, for laughs; or
- Appealing to the fantasy that women of some age or other might have about sex with a hunk-y male (and not a minor)</p>
<p>Adults sponsoring/condoning a fundraiser where tween/teen girls wash cars in bikinis are appealing to the fantasy that men have about sex with such girls., who are minors W-a-a-ay inappropriate. Whether the girls themselves are soliciting that, IDK. Quite possibly not. But their parents, coaches and sponsors should know better.</p>
<p>Hooters is appealing to the fantasy that men have of sex with the wait staff clad in suggestive outfits. Might not be a fantasy of statutory rape; probably not. Still not appropriate for fundraising for organizations involving 4-14 year olds.</p>
<p>I doubt any male firefighters have been victims of rape.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Maybe they think they are presenting themselves as sexually atrractive to teenage boys driving by or working with them in the fundraiser. Maybe they think that their daring attire will make them a queen bee amongst their female classmates. Maybe they think that bikinis are the clothing most comfortable to wear in a very wet environment. Whatever they think, a person’s clothing does not give permit to an action by another person, outside of the action of viewing. Since “solicit,” in all senses of the word, indicates an intention to cause another person to actually to make an action, I find it wrong to state that the girls are “soliciting statutory rape.”</p>
<p>People choose to present themselves in a sexually attractive way to attract prospective partners. If you are not reasonably (or, in the case of a minor, even legally) a prospective partner for a person, it might be best to not assume that you were on her mind when she decided what to wear. Elsewise, we might be on the slippery slope to burqa reasoning.</p>
<p>Interesting timing that I found this article:</p>
<p>[Will</a> bikinis hike your car insurance?- MSN Money](<a href=“http://money.msn.com/auto-insurance/article.aspx?post=f5635078-0dc3-4fda-a5ff-3d3b26549810>1=33033]Will”>http://money.msn.com/auto-insurance/article.aspx?post=f5635078-0dc3-4fda-a5ff-3d3b26549810>1=33033)</p>
<p>I think most of us intuitively knew this, but to have a police officer confirm it… well…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
Well call me naive, but I thought that in part they were perhaps wearing the skimpy outfits to attract more customers to the carwash so they would make more money in their fundraising (and be comfortable while they waashed the cars)</p>
<p>I think the teen girls might be thinking what Illyria said. Or what jym suggests. Who’s to know?</p>
<p>But it makes no never mind. They have parents and coaches. Regardless of what the teen girls are thinking, the parents should realize that it’s inappropriate to have bikini-clad teens or tweens be the bait to attract customers, especially male customers over 21. And the parents should be the ones making the decision here. </p>
<p>The fact that scantily clad girls might raise more money than girls in yellow rain slickers should also not come into play. Maybe they could raise the most money by <em>actually</em> selling sex… doesn’t make it ok.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Absolutely agree, jmmom. I just got “distracted while posting” by the soliciting statutory rape comment. That may come from being a former swim team mom, accustomed to one daughter who for years, like all her female teammates, lived much of the summer clothed in practice suits and shorts.</p>
<p>Illyria, there is a huge gulf between a girl dressed appropriately for a sporting activity, or a girl dressed appropriately for a beach ON a beach, and teens and tweens dressed in bikinis–especially on public thoroughfares–being used as bait to attract more male customers. As I said, I really don’t think the girls have thought it through. But as jmmom says, there are parents and other adults involved. </p>
<p>NO ONE has suggested that girls attired for athletics are doing anything even faintly questionable. As a matter of fact, several of us have rejected outright the suggestion by another poster that Hooters uniforms are the equivalent of real athletic attire.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I like the citrus sales too! What if we put some grapefruit in a bikini top? That could be a brilliant fundraiser without exploiting any of our daughters!</p>
<p>The real issue here, that some of the posters are missing the boat on, is the intent of the fundraising method. I think the hooters fundraiser raises different concerns than the car wash issue. Hooters is just trying to make money. The fact that they donate money, sponsor teams, whatever is just another way to make money. They try to white wash their reputation and hope that the fact that the very premise of their business is sex will be forgiven or overlooked because they “do good”.</p>
<p>The car wash is a whole other issue. Debating the propriety of a bikini, in and of itself, is not looking at the real issue. The real issue is the fact that minor girls are dressing provocatively as a way to attract customers. Whether the girls think this is okay or not is, again, not the point. It is up to the adults in these kid’s lives to point out that this is a form of sexual exploitation. It is up to those same adults to forbid this type of event. Any parent or teacher or coach who encourages it and stands by while bikini clad teens solicit customers on the street is no different from your average pimp.</p>
<p>By the way, I should add, my girls never dressed in bikinis for these car washes. I never even had to ask them not to.</p>
<p>However, there wasn’t much I could do about the other girls who showed up that way. It was not my jurisdiction unfortunately and is one reason I am glad I no longer am involved in that fundraiser.</p>
<p>What if the carwash was organized by your local canasta club and the carwashers were grandmas?</p>
<p>How does this compare to [Calendar</a> Girls (2003) - IMDb](<a href=“http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0337909/]Calendar”>Calendar Girls (2003) - IMDb) or the infamous Matilda’s Aussie Calendar? </p>
<p>Fwiw, the HS girls would be probably be underdressed for Berkeley’s parades. The issues in this thread are multiple ranging from acceptable nudity and sexism in fundraising and commercial establishment to the simple acceptability of fundraising in general. It is obvious that, as individuals, we find some more acceptable than others but the choices are hardly universal. We also tend to find some organized lewdness and debauchery such as Mardi Gras (just to name the tamer one in NOLA) to be amusing and entertaining while finding Hooter’s offensive. </p>
<p>It’s all a matter of perception, and may have little to do with morals and values.</p>
<p>
I don’t think their is ANY acceptable level of nudity or sexism in fundraising that involves children or teens. When grandmas or fire fighters choose to pose for a calendar, they are making that choice as ADULTS. There is a giant ethical difference between that activity and the exploitation of minors in order to raise money.</p>
<p>Whether Hooters is moral or not is beside the point. People choose whether to go there or not go there. But to use Hooters as a venue for raising money is, imo, questionable and icky. It is, again though, a very different issue than that of having scantily clad teenage girls used as bait to lure customers to a car wash.</p>
<p>That these are kids still under the protection of adults, which high schoolers are, in addition to the possibilities of minors makes the attire an issue. It just is not right to do things like this with high school kids. If a private club wanted to do this with adults, that’s a whole other story. High schools should be conservative in this regard. You don’t want scantily clad high schoolers posing in calendars for school fundraisers or anything associated with the school. If grandma, or firefighters or college kids want to do this, fine.</p>
<p>Though having seen some Facebook and other internet photos of some high schoolers, it wouldn’t be a big deal in terms of some of these kids’ exposures. It’s just part of the “moral aura” we try to maintain in our kids’ school while they are still kids. Offer a safe haven of sorts until they are out of high school.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I doubt you will find anyone on this forum who would support the involvement of children in such activities. </p>
<p>But, do you think the positions in this thread would be much different were you to replace HS cheerleading team with … a college sorority? Or, if everyone of the bikini-clad girls were older than 18?</p>
<p>Xiggi, I would not be interested in a bunch of half naked firemen, frat members, college swim team, grandpas washing my car, but if they wanted to do their fund raiser that way, fine with me. I also did not buy the naked old women calenders nor do I buy the Playgirl’s or other such calendars, but that is a personal issue. It is more than just a personal opinion when it comes to high school kids in these sort of activities.</p>
<p>Actually, I’ve had a number of offers from Hooters for freebies that I’ve had to turn down due to underage kids involved. They are a very generous organization, but it just isn’t appropriate to take a bunch of high school kids there. The Ronald McDonald House did give out meal cards for the place as the one in Manhattan does contribute them for families with seriously ill kids. We do have them on our gift card tree for the House. </p>
<p>But once kids are in college, that’s a whole other thing. Most college students are of legal age to do what they please. I have seen bikini clad girls drumming up business at carnivals and many of them are on the other side of 20. But not under 18, I would think.</p>
<p>xiggi,
I expect that you are right. My post was in response the one preceding mine that makes mention of the debate on the thread.</p>
<p>And, yes, I imagine that some of the opinions on this thread would differ if the people involved in the fund raiser were over eighteen. Mine would differ in that I would not endorse that kind of activity as I don’t approve of individuals, especially young women objectifying themselves for the purpose of raising cash. However, I would acknowledge that, as adults, it is their choice to make.</p>
<p>I would take issue if a college were backing or encouraging such activities, though.</p>
<p>I hope that it is clear that I do not support the activities. As I said the issues are complex, starting with the level of individual responsibilities and the level of parental or official approval. </p>
<p>I believe that most schools or organizations would rely on prior parental approvals for activities related to the high school or EC activities. It seems that, as far as I know, the simplest visit to the Zoo or the local museum required parents to sign a 15 pages disclaimer. This would mean that activities that involved children do require the approval of parents or guardians. </p>
<p>The reason I brought up sororities is that there also seems that some believe in the existence of a magical wand that doles out common sense to anyone who becomes and adult, or goes to … college. With the parent removed, we would have to divide the “blame” between colleges and the individual themselves. In this case, it is more than probable that a school would have little jurisdiction over the clothes worn by students at such “function.” This, then leaves the students themselves. </p>
<p>And, at the end, can we really blame teenagers to be confused about what is acceptable when Hollywood and every media channel available make their living from exploiting sexuality and human weirdness (read reality shows) overtly, and hide behind the minuscule fig leave that it IS what the customer wants to see. </p>
<p>Fwiw, anyone who watched the European Soccer Finals on Fox should understand what I meant about the media channels by remembering the latest Acura commercial with the olympian stripping into an evening gown. </p>
<p>The US remains hopelessly ambivalent about pleasing the prude and the puritan or the voyeurs and the depraved.</p>
<p>For high school fundraisers, I have not had to have permission slips, Xiggi, ever in the 30 years I’ve been a mom. Nor for any of the ECs that have them. I’ve worked with car washes, selling all kinds of stuff from candy, to cider, to wrapping paper; you name it. </p>
<p>At one car wash, they all came in white t shirts, I remember. Keeping one step ahead of kids is a challenge.</p>