<p>On the Common Data Set, you sometimes see percentages of students who are Pell-eligible, the percentage that ate subidized-Stafford-but-not-Pell-eligible, and the percentage eligible for neither.</p>
<p>Does anybody know what the household income percentile levels are for Pell and subsidized Stafford? I always thought Pell eligibility was the lower 33% to 40% of the spectrum. Not sure if this is still true, and not sure at all about subsidized Stafford.</p>
<p>It varies by school. You have to have a certain level of financial need to qualify for subsidized loans. So…if you are applying to a $60,000 a year school and have an EFC of $30,000 you might qualify.</p>
<p>If you apply to a school that costs $30,000 a year and have an EFC of $30,000, you would have no need and would not get a subsidized loan.</p>
<p>Maybe my question wasn’t clear – on a national spectrum of households, the Pell-eligibles have historically generally fallen in the bottom 33% - 40%, I believe. Does anybody know the national percentile for the next more-fortunate cohort (Pell-ineligible but subsidized Stafford-eligible)? Does anybody have a different reference point for the Pell-eligible?</p>
<p>I’m very confused by your question. To be eligible for a Pell Grant, you need to have an EFC below $5000. </p>
<p>Even WITH a Pell, you might not be eligible for a subsidized loan. If the cost of tuition is under or near $5000, you might not get a subsidized Direct Loan…if you live at home.</p>
<p>I’m not sure that 33% of all households are Pell eligible.</p>
<p>The PELL is very simple. To be eligible your FAFSA EFC is below that $5K point. The subsidized Stafford loan has no such line that can be drawn. You can have an EFC of $60K but if the school selected has a COA of $63500, you are eligible for $3500 in subsidized DIrect loans, BUT your school might give you a grant or work study in that amount and you’d then be eligible for no subsidy in the Direct Loans Some schools do not include any loans in their financial aid packages at all, so if your entire FAFSA need is met with their awards, you aren’t entitled to any subsidy of your Direct loans. On the other hand, you can go to a school with a cost of $3500 and if you have an EFC of over $5K, the school can give you the entire subsidized $3500 Direct Loan and no other financial aid. You have no entitlement to PELL since you are over that threshold and some schools give nothing other than PELL and the Direct loans, none of which comes from them, but from the Federal govt.</p>
<p>It is possible to be eligible for a subsidized Direct loan with family income well in the six figure range. Someone with, 4 kids in college, for example could have need as defined by FAFSA EFC if those kids all went to expensive private schools. That income could be way up there, and there would still be the need factor These days having an EFC of a quarter million dollars which could mean an income way up there, could still result in need in the 4 kids at $65K a year private schools. So if those kids’ colleges did not give other aid, there is easily a possibility that at least one of those kids, or even all of them qualify for a subsidized Direct loan.</p>
<p>Cpte. I’m not sure your amounts are true for subbed loans. When my son was a freshman, the COA at his college was about $42,000 a year. Our EFC was $22,000. He received a $10,000 merit award, which still left a $10,000 or more gap. He did NOT receive a subsidized loan. </p>
<p>My understanding is that as long as you pay your FAFSA EFC, and there are costs still left on the official COA unmet by merit or other aid, you can take a subsidized Direct Loan. Theoretically, if two of our kids had gone to top cost privates while they were both in college at the same time, and gotten no scholarships or other aid, they could have gotten some subsidy of Direct Loans. I know that our neighbor and another friend of mine had 3 in college at the same time, and all they were able to get was some subsidy of their direct loans. In their cases, they had no need according to primary home value and the less generous split for multiples in college, but the COAs were more than EFC, so they did get small amounts of Direct loans subsidized. </p>
<p>I did not think the Direct Loans were run by the colleges but through the federal government. Schools differ as to how they treat these loans. Some never put them into aid packages, some offer subsidized only as aid. Might want to ask Kelsmom about this.</p>
<p>The student will have to apply and see. Like I said…we had at least $10,000 of unmet need with DS. He got unsubsidized loans only. </p>
<p>I’m not wondering how you get a Pell or a subsidized Stafford. I’m wondering about it from a macroeconomic perspective, which economic deciles of the overall American population are eligible for what. I realize that family size matters, but when you’re looking at it from a macro perspective, you’re dealing with averages, and the outliers (unusually large family size) would wash out.</p>
<p>The economic decile of the college student’s family doesn’t matter at all. It is their financial NEED at the colleges that matters when determining whether a loan will be subsidized. </p>
<p>Pell eligible students will probably receive subsidized loans at schools. Anyone else…all bets are off…because it ALL depends on your financial NEED at the colleges to which you are accepted.</p>
<p>The cost of the college is often the major determinant. A student may not qualify for a subsidized direct loan if s/he goes to a local public school, but will qualify if same student goes to away for college or to a higher cost school such as a private school Need is defined as COA-EFC. That COA can vary widely in price from a few thousand or even nothing to over $60K a year. Also involved in the equation is other aid or scholarships the student gets. With PELL, it’s almost entirely EFC though COA plays a dollar limit role. Basically, you can’t get much more than the cost, but since max PELL is about $5600, we aren’t talking about much limitations. </p>
<p>I’m sorry if this is a dumb question: do all of the preceding mean that if a college says our “EFC” is $30,000, I do NOT have the option to pya $25,000 and take a Stafford loan for 5K?</p>
<p>^^
Likely not, because the Stafford loan is likely ALREADY in the FA pkg.</p>
<p>For example:</p>
<p>$40k = school’s COA</p>
<h2>$30k = EFC</h2>
<p>$10k = need</p>
<p>A $5500 stafford loan will be given in the FA pkg to put towards that $10k of need. That may be ALL that you get. So, you may end up having to pay $34,500.</p>
<p>@mom2collegekids - thanks! But what if there wasn’t already a Stafford in the FA package, like if it’s a school that “meets need w/o loans” - or what if it’s a school where they think my EFC should cover COA after merit aid, or something like that?</p>
<p>If it’s a school that “meets need w/o loans,” then your FAFSA EFC isn’t going to be reliable. Are you using the NPCs on each schools’ website? </p>
<p>There are very few schools that “meet need” w/o loans for incomes larger than about $60k.</p>
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<p>Not sure what you’re asking…are you asking…IF?</p>
<p>COA = $50k</p>
<h2>Merit = $20k</h2>
<p>net cost = $30k</p>
<p>If your EFC is $30k, then your child can take an UNSUB loan of $5500 and you’d pay $24,500</p>
<p>@mom2collegekids - yes, thank you! You are right, I was using NPC not FAFSA. Regarding your final line there - should I assume you cannot take a subsidized loan in that context?</p>
<p>
I agree with thumper1, for students who are NOT Pell eligible.</p>
<p>I think, for these students, how poor the students in the context of the college to which they are accepted matters. A student may get subsidized Direct loan from school A where there are more rich students, but the same student may not get subsidized Direct loan from school B where there are more poor students (relative to the financial status of the family of this student.)</p>
<p>I hope it will not be the case that, when the FA office decides whether a student is given the subsidized Direct loan, it also considers whether the student is “desirable” or how difficult the student is recruited or not (e.g., it is rumored that some LACs may prefer to recruit more ORMs and some other colleges may prefer to have some “cap” on ORMs. The FA package could be used to manipulate this.)</p>
<p>The word “direct” in the direct subsidized Stafford loan only means that the money is directly from the fed government. But the decision is still made by the FA office at each school.</p>
<p>BTW, in case this matters to some grad students: currently there are no subsidized Stafford loans for grad students at all. All Stafford loans are unsubsidized. (Correct me if I am wrong here: The Stafford loans are now called the Direct loans.) Also, I believe in one year (likely 2 o 3 years ago), the interest rate for unsubsidized Stafford loans was higher. (We have tried to pay down that year’s unsubsidized loan as much as we could so we know.)</p>
<p>I think going to a school which happens to have more rich students may increase your odds of getting the subsidized Stafford loans. (Top colleges = higher standardized test scores = more rich students because the SES of student’s family to a great extent decides his/her SAT score - possibly with an exception of some segment of new immigrant families who might actually belong to a relatively high SES class in their origin countries before they immigrate.)</p>
<p>
Not at Cornell. Our FAFSA EFC is about $5k lower than actual COA but D didn’t qualify for subsidized Stafford loan. Funny that Cornell actual EFC for us is 15K higher than their COA.</p>
<p>^ I guess that the students from a “working class” ivy are not working class enough. LOL.</p>
<p>In one year, it was said on the new paper that the students at our flagship state university are not working class enough. Stop using standardized test scores and base all college admission decisions using the class rank and GPA no matter how bad a high school is - this “problem” of not having enough working class students is then resolved!</p>
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<p>Thank you mcat2. Finally someone understand this concept. Different colleges view the same income level differently. </p>
<p>A state U could ask a student from a 100K gross income family for full pay. Yet a generous private U may offer significant FA to the same student. I think this situation has been proven over and over again. It actually cost less to attend an expensive list price private U than a public state U even for instate students. Again, I think one student could get subsidized loan from a “rich” college but will not get it from some other colleges. </p>
<p>It is somehow difficult for many to understand this concept. </p>
<p>We know one family where both parents are professionals with advanced degrees. H only asked for $30K a year from them for their child while almost all other schools wanted full pay. The end results - they got a great need base aid package while have way above average $$ to spend. To H, their income is below average. To the rest of the country, they may be top 10%. </p>
<p>there are many families who have less income than this family but have to pay way more than $30K for their kids at other schools. </p>