Not to offend, but are we back to this thing of babying kids who apply to a most selective? They can’t tell kids their chances are low? It’s not encouraging enough?
If you want to play high stakes, rationality and resilience matter.
The professor conducting the initial info session at UC Berkeley a few years ago said that learning all of the material taught in a course at Berkeley would earn you just a C, and that you had to go way beyond that to do better. We thought it very odd that someone representing the school to a tour group would be so discouraging. It seemed as if he were trying scare applicants away.
I think the real reason it is difficult to get A’s at Berkeley is that they include enough difficult material in the exams, whether it is important to learn or not, to ensure a grading curve that weeds students out because they don’t have enough professors to teach as many upper level classes as there is demand for. I don’t know if the professor was really trying to deter students from applying, but I think that may be what he accomplished. Maybe we should just be grateful that he helped guide our son toward a school that has similar high quality teaching but with adequate positive reinforcement included.
@lookingforward - Funny, but I saw it the other way…colleges should show prospective students enough respect to assume that they are smart enough to figure out what a 7% acceptance rate means. Specifically saying “Our low acceptance rate means very few of you will get in” sounds like he thinks his audience is made up of imbeciles.
Still, it’s hard to imagine Amherst saying something accidentally, without rehearsal. Their motivation may not be obvious, but I have to believe they know what they’re doing!
Any student who is in range for these schools understands the math sufficiently well. Therefore saying that “you are not likely to get in” wastes the time and talks down to students in range–they very students they compete for.
Yes, any student who is in the range for the elite schools understands the math. But it’s a big assumption that the group of those who attend the info sessions is comprised of those in the range for the school. My guess is a large portion of those attending honestly do not know how selective the schools are.
Several years ago in the large complex where I work, a local college came by to promote their executive MBA program. I’d guess about 20 or so people showed up for the presentation. Of that group 2 actually had undergrad degrees. Even among adults, many didn’t comprehend that an MBA program was a graduate level program… (No, I’m not kidding)
Saying “you are not likely to get in”, in an info session, comes across as dismissive. Doubly so, since info sessions are also marketing efforts; your audience is expecting to be “sold” on your product, not dismissed as likely not “good enough”.
It’s fine to mention how selective (or better yet, “competitive”) admissions to your college have become, especially before covering admissions requirements, but don’t talk down to your audience.
Not sure why Amherst feels they need to do that. Stanford did admit to having a 4.7% admit rate in their info session, but they weren’t snotty about it.
I guess I don’t see it at taking down to your audience. I see it as being honest. All of our kids are special snowflakes, but they all aren’t going to get accepted to every school that interests them.
Too many colleges are in permanent “selling” mode, getting thousands of students to apply who have zero realistic chance of admission.
But you are correct that saying that most are not likely to get in clearly comes across as dismissive to lots of people, including the two posters earlier in this thread who said they just walked out and stopped considering the school because of that. I just don’t see it that way myself.
We had a similar experience at Pomona, where right before the tour we had a mini info session that was about 5 mins long. The adcom went on and on about how selective they were, how hard it was to get in, etc. It was a big turn off for my D because it came across as both arrogant and also like they needed to explain to us just how good a college it is. We went on the tour (led by a nice student who loved it there) but never made it to the actual info session since my D had already decided by that point that she wasn’t interested in applying. I do think that the arrogance of that “welcome to Pomona” intro didn’t help.
Many don’t get the math despite being qualified. Look at all the posts we get on CC after admissions decisions come out with students who are shocked, surprised, dismayed, whatever when they didn’t get into the selective school(s) dreamed of.
I prefer a school that leans towards honesty more than a school that has a sub 10% acceptance rate but still puts on the full sales job including sending gobs of marketing pieces, etc.
“Every single admissions officer at a college with extremely competitive admissions would tell you this privately - why is it so crazy to admit it up front?”
I wonder what the tone was like. I’m usually a fan of schools laying the cards on the table, but you can say this in a way that’s more or less obnoxious. It makes a big difference to me how much the school acknowledges that lots of the denied kids are just as qualified as the accepted kids.
There’s nothing a school can say that won’t tick someone off. At the same time, plenty of schools could stand to improve their communication.
“Don’t worry about sticker price because nobody pays it.”
What the posters have said about Amherst centers around the multiple times the presenter laid out the terrible odds and the cold hearted manner in which it was conveyed. I can understand the off-putting tone of this. After all, these people are spending a half day on your campus – at least say you’re grateful for your interest!
I’ve given presentations for my college ever since I graduated. My alma mater’s admit rate is lower than Amherst’s. I speak mostly to mixed audiences of students and parents. I also understand that in my audience are people who can’t fathom how competitive the pool has become.
I almost ALWAYS thank the audience for their interest and time. I don’t talk down to them but I’m also very clear about the rotten odds. I tell them that IF they happen to be presently among the top handful of scholars in their school, then they MIGHT be a viable candidate. I don’t sugarcoat – but I certainly don’t bludgeon it into their heads either. After all, they want to hear a presentation from an Ivy league school – I’m in a part of the country where there’s not zillions of volunteers alums from top schools doing these presentations.
It’s crazy enough. I don’t need to channel Thurston Howell III to them for the 45 minutes they give me.
When we went to Emory’s info session, the admissions counselor doing the presentation told the group that anybody who needs FA should not apply early decision. While I admire his honesty and knew that ED was binding, we visited over 15 schools with our daughter and nobody ever came out and stated it so bluntly. I guess they did not want to deal with people backing out because of insufficient FA packages.
I think it was the combination of “You probably won’t get in” plus the lousy indoor track facility that was the biggest turnoff. We didn’t expect a gold-plated track, but it was literally the worst conditions we saw among the 11 schools my son applied to.
They understand the math or as doschicos wrote, on CC we see a lot of kids misreading, thinking the 80+ percent rejections doesn’t apply to them? After all, they have these stats and those special ECs. And their essays are brilliant.
Maybe it was said dismissively. Maybe it just felt that way.
I think there’s a difference between being honest about the low admit rate and how competitive admissions are without getting personal about it. It might seem small, but I think there is a difference between saying a general issue “the vast majority of applicants won’t get in” and saying “you probably won’t get in.”
We were attending an info session at UChicago two years ago when a parent asked, “Do you have an Honors College?” The admissions rep’s mouth literally dropped open. After a few seconds, she composed herself and slowly replied, “No, all our students take the same classes.” 
We were impressed at how gracious she was.
^ Wow,what a wrong impression that parent got!