Inner drive - is it possible some kids will never have it? Frustrated

Parents Forum
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They say apple never falls far from the tree. Both parents are highly driven from a young age, but it seems that my daughter is still developing that. Slowly.

Looking at the two B+ grades she got this year, both are from relatively easy courses. I call these “effort” classes where you got As as long as you put in enough effort. I think she didn’t do well, in part, because she is not driven to excel in those classes. If she could get by with 50% effort, she would do that.

Advanced courses she got all As. I think those are not “effort” classes that’s why she can manage better.

How to help. Only two years left before college.

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It may be that your daughter has different motivations than you do, it may be that she’s immature or she’s rebelling or she’s just a normal kid who has figured out that a B+ with little effort works for her.

I’ve quoted my wise mom before “we don’t get to pick what they’re like.” We don’t. I commented on a different thread that I think she might enjoy having a job.

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Yes, it’s very possible kids don’t have it.

Some are just chill. Others are driven by things but not the things you expect and hope.

I learned long ago my kids aren’t me. We used to push and just pushed them further away.

Your kids need to be motivated on their own.

If a B+ means they go to Bing instead of Brown, oh well. That’s the consequence.

That’s how you learn.

Not everyone is you - not even your kids. We all hope in some regards.
Also your kid is in a private school ( I assume high priced) and you are talking about pay to play stuff.

You love your kid. You are supporting them financially to the point of easiness.

You may have unknowingly contributed.

So stop - she wants the new purse ? Get a job and pay. Designer clothes ? Gap is fine. U pay the difference.

All your chains say I’m not getting what I want.

You have to change the mindset. It’s not even about you.

I’ve helicoptered too. One kid has been ok. The daughter we have a lot of work.

Step back. Let her fail. A B+ is not failing btw. But let her struggle. Let her suffer which I’m guessing is just suffering based on the lifestyle accustomed to - not really suffering.

She needs to learn - bcuz eventually she won’t have you for the day to day.

Step back. Don’t go to the college counselor. Don’t push. Let her do that. Yes, she’ll fall behind but it’s ok bcuz you don’t need a list for a year still. Offer help - I see you struggling here. How can I help?

But don’t push your agenda.

You want to do right. But it’s going to hurt.

Learn from my mistakes. And others I know.

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Not that it’s an excuse, but “bored to death” is what comes to mind.

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What is wrong with two B+ grades?

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I get it. I have no issue with a B if you did your best, but my kids know that a B+ because you didn’t turn in your HW is not acceptable.

OP, my third definitely benefited from watching her older siblings go through the college process and understanding the stakes, but it was maturity that really made a difference. Much of which arrived Junior year. Talk to her about the importance of always giving your best and let the growing up do the rest of the work.

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It’s frustrating when kids pass up “low hanging fruit” like an A in an easy class.

I think it’s important to avoid labeling kids with our interpretations of why these things happen, though. If you are seeing your kid through a “lack of inner drive” lens, there’s potential for the kid to absorb that. A self-fulfilling prophecy situation is not what you want.

There are so many reasons that these things happen. One, as already suggested, is sheer boredom with an easy class. Kids with ADD/ADHD are particularly susceptible to this… and there are many whose performance isn’t affected enough to get flagged for diagnosis, but who may still show some of the patterns, especially when circumstances don’t align in their favor (e.g. boredom, teachers they don’t love, etc.)… and of course completely-neurotypical kids are affected by these things too.

It’s also worth considering this generation from a bit of a more existential vantage point. Most of us grew up with a lot of faith in the “meritocracy” - we truly believed that our hard work would be rewarded. Young people today have legitimate reasons for being more skeptical than we were. Have you had conversations with your kid, about how hopeful they do or don’t feel about the future, and about whether they feel confident that jumping through the proverbial hoops that school puts in front of them will pay off?

If your kid is acing the tough classes, I doubt they lack inner drive. What are they interested in? There’s little to be gained by butting heads about the grade issue directly - they’re smart enough to know that you won’t be thrilled about forfeiting easy A’s. But if you can help them get excited about goals they they choose for themself, then reasons to “grade grub” even when a class isn’t inspiring may become more clear to them, as a means to an end. Or, they may never be willing to do that; and there will still be great colleges where they can go and find the challenges they thrive on.

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Just because your kid got 2 B+'s doesn’t mean the kid doesn’t have inner drive or will be a failure in life.

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Lots of colleges are available for students with 3.6-3.7 HS GPA with hard courses.

The important job for the parent with respect to kid’s college is financial planning so that the parameters of affordability are known before the student applies to any colleges.

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D22 was the same way in high school. She’s not a competitor and has never been a “performing monkey” that does things just for recognition, but she’s always been a hard worker in the “real world”. She got her first job at 14 and has worked ever since. Work is what is important to her. I pushed hard 9th and part of 10th grade, but I came to the point where I just had to accept she was going to do it her way. She loves her classes in college and has been on the dean’s list every semester. Her teachers love that she has great work experience and are impressed with her work ethic in her practicum. Your daughter will find something she wants to do and will be fine.

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Op - sorry to be direct but from both threads - it appears you want her to live as you want. You even admitted it with the type of school you want her to go to and the amount you can pay.

You love her but my guess is you aren’t helping her. Of course you want to. But she likely needs to help herself.

I think what @vwlizard is likely correct. It may not be this year or next or in 3 years or in 8 but eventually it will likely happen.

It’ll be hard for you to sit patiently back. But that’s likely the answer.

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But what’s the problem with this? Maybe a B+ is good enough in her mind? And isn’t it good enough? There are many, many excellent colleges that would love a B+ student and, if she is shooting for one of those colleges, why do a bunch of busy work (and, by your description, it sounds like the grades in these classes are based on what amounts to busy work), if you don’t actually have to? I despise busy work myself. I won’t do it if I don’t have to do it.

I was also a B+ student in high school. Went to a middle-ground university (Fordham), then onto Georgetown (MA) and UC Berkeley (MA, PhD). So I had sufficient “inner drive” to complete a nearly 700-page dissertation, despite 1. Hating and avoiding things I consider “busy work” and 2. Being a B+ student in high school. Not everyone has the same internal motivations, not everyone measures success in the same way, and not everyone has the same patience for work that they don’t find intellectually engaging/challenging.

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Thanks everyone for raising good points. The consensus appears to be: be patient, let the growing up does its thing. One post suggests encouraging her to give her best effort-yes has been doing that. One or two posts suggest that this doesn’t indicate lacking inner drive, so nothing wrong with it.

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I think that we need to set a good example for our children, help them when we can and when they need help, and let them find their own way in life. Different students mature at different times and at different ages.

We all want our kids to be successful. However, the definition of “successful” varies from one person to another. How we get to be successful varies quite a bit. Among the most successful people I have known, it is rare to find anyone who took what you or I might have thought was the shortest or most direct path to success. We try a bit of this and a bit of that. Sometimes some of our efforts fail. Eventually we find our passion, or at least find the right path in life for us.

High school students in the US are under way, way too much pressure. It is not enough to get A’s. You need A’s in the right classes. To get into top schools you need the right ECs, and no one can or will tell you what the right ECs are. Even the right ECs are not enough. You need leadership positions. You need great letters of references and great essays, but no one will tell you what a great essay is either. Even with this you will probably be turned down by the most famous schools.

Just growing up and being a teenager is stressful enough. Our students do not need this additional stress.

And the kids who go to “pretty good” universities end up doing very well in life. Many find the right career and do well. Some of them end up attending very highly ranked graduate programs.

And I have known a few people who were at best average and unimpressive in school, until they found what they wanted to do. Then they just turned it right around and did very well, in some cases impressively well.

Yes, patience is appropriate here. Let the growing up do its thing over time. Your daughter sounds like she is doing fine.

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I wholeheartedly agree.

And I’ll just add, from my experience raising 2 very bright teen boys, that there is no cause for alarm. @aquapt lists a couple examples that apply to my guys. Boring class? Nope! Covid Zoom class? Nope! “Easy class?” Both my guys blew off Health! Hell, my older one couldn’t be bothered to wear his sneakers to gym! Unlikeable/uptight teacher? Forget it. They just can’t care without a connection. Interesting class in a subject they value with a great teacher that gets neurodiversity? A/A+ every time.

My older one had a 3.34UW/3.67W at the end of Junior year. He rocked his first year at UMASS-Amherst with a 3.9 and an undergraduate research gig. He’s studying content he values. Is it Harvard? No. For my kid, it’s better than Harvard. All the barns, animals, and research he could want.

I’m too tired to come up with an ideal analogy, but I’m trying to be a little more flexible with S23 by allowing him to drive the bus toward his goals. My job is to raise kind kids and provide them the support and tools they needs to succeed.

See if you can figure out what she likes about the classes she excels in. What is she passionate about? Let that be the guide.

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This is what worries me - from your other thread:

“Lawrence Berkeley Lab has super strong environmental research. If she could go into academia even with a low salary I would be really proud.”

This is what you envision for your daughter - but what does she envision? You need to give her space to determine what she wants to do - and honestly she may not know for many years.

This is very specific - and would make you happy. But maybe not her.

Hopefully she’ll find her passion - and when she does, you’ll likely see a strong drive.

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I have to agree that the level of specificity here seems to set quite a high bar for what would make you proud. You must understand that the subtext she will hear is, “Anything ‘less’ than this will not make me proud.”

There’s also this:

No sooner does she express an interest in something than you’re looking for a competition in that thing so she can win awards. This all feels like an awful lot of pressure.

You can’t maneuver her into awards in a brand new area of interest, but you could suck all the joy out of a new interest by making it feel like your agenda rather than something she gets to own.

I would be looking for ways for her to engage and get to know the field and the possibilities better. She sounds very bright - maybe some exposure to GIS would open doors for her, in terms of giving her an experience of the possibilities of how environmental data can be analyzed with state-of-the-art tools. But then again, maybe she would get the most out of some sort of hands-on field experience, or getting involved in environmental advocacy. What sounds interesting to her? How does she feel about the environmental field? Is it an “I just like studying nature” kind of thing, or an “I’m terrified about the trajectory of climate change” kind of thing? A lot of kids these days understand how big of a quandary we’re in, and are understandably troubled about it.

Also, what is her overall courseload like? Maybe balls are getting dropped in the “easy” courses because she’s juggling too much, and prioritizing the more “important” classes?

She’s only 16-ish, and you’re literally describing her as “lost” because she hasn’t drilled down on a college major yet. She needs some time and space to figure out what she is interested in. The more you try to pin her down and turn her nascent interests into your “aspirational career plan,” the less she will feel any ownership of that plan. If you want her to show “inner drive,” that starts with ownership. And that means that if she gets some B+'s, she can own that too. She will still have fine options for college, and they will be her options.

So many young people these days are truly struggling. If your biggest worries are that she doesn’t have a 4.0UW GPA and you aren’t sure of her class rank… take a breath and appreciate what a gift it is that she is doing so well. These years will be over before you know it; don’t spend them panicking about every little transcript-blemish. Have faith in your kid, and let her feel your confidence and your excitement about her potential, instead of your doubt and anxiety. She probably has her own doubts and anxieties; she shouldn’t have to carry yours too.

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I have 5 kids, the first 4 have so much hustle that I honestly don’t know where they came from. #5? Not so much (and he’s a twin). My nephew sounds like your daughter. AP physics - A. Mandatory basket weaving? C. He did have a neuropsychological evaluation senior year in HS, ADHD with executive function issues. 35 ACT 1540 SAT, one college acceptance. My son was evaluated too, no ADHD (which I knew, his brother is ADHD). They land where they land.

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Sounds pretty normal for this age group. My son is brilliant but you’d never know based on his transcript. He doesn’t want to try any harder than he has to. Unless you’re talking about sports, then he’s all in. Oh well.

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I don’t see a problem here. I see a 16 year old HS student who plays varsity volleyball and received a few B+’s. What, exactly is the problem?

How did she get to varsity volleyball if she lacks drive?

Is she social? Does she have friends? Based on your other post it seems the answer is yes.

I would take a few steps back and count my blessings.

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