That’s a little strange since you can get nicotine from many things other than smoking.
Is nicotine (not smoking, just nicotine) really that bad for you? So if for instance, someone chewed nicotine gum or wore those patches would that be terribly harmful to their health?
I know they’re just using nicotine as a proxy for smoking because they can’t really measure if someone smokes, but it’s not a good proxy.
5’6 and 113lbs sounds extremely skinny…
My dad died very young of a combination of genetics and smoking. There is no way I’ll ever smoke.
My company requires an affidavit that we don’t smoke. Employees can smoke, but it costs another $100 or so a month in insurance premiums, I think, if they do.
Every day I see people leaving the building to go smoke. Since it’s not allowed on company property (this includes personal vehicles), they go out to sidewalks or across the street. Presumably the hourly employees are doing it on their breaks. The salaried, well, we don’t have real breaks & I doubt they’re making up their time. Somebody in the larger organization just went out on a medical leave…he is one of the heavy smokers.
My choice of the company policies covers just about everything for a reasonable premium. Since I’d like to keep that low premium, I don’t have any problem with people making poor decisions paying more.
Katliamom, I think you are missing my point. “Clinical” is the keyword here. Is there a test that can tell from analysis of a patient’s sample that there is a 99±% chance the person owns a gun? Doubtful.
Vlad, nicotine is bad, period. Smoking is just one way of getting a nicotine high. I’m all for substance abusers paying more for health insurance, because it is their choice. Genes, OTOH, are what you are born with - so those are off limit.
I sat next to some guy and he had e-cigarette. I had the same dis-respect feeling toward him as I would toward smoker, as in why would a smart guy like him wants to kill himself slowly, but I didn’t smell anything. I don’t know whether it has nicotine or not. But to be honest, he kept wanting to meet some of my kids but I had to brush aside because I didn’t want either of them to be involved with someone who smokes cigarette or e-cigarette.
@Vlad, the life insurance companies figure that if you use nicotine you are still addicted and may return to smoking. Most have changed their question to ask about nicotine versus smoking.
I just returned from Spain. I was shocked and annoyed at how many people smoked. While smoking is not allowed in restaurants, it is allowed in outdoor cafes. Our hotels were non-smoking and so were museums, cathedrals and other indoor sights. But on the street…it was a constant exposure. I think most European countries have higher rates of smoking that we do. Why? You’d think their national health would have smoking cessation and education programs to try and save the money. If they do, they sure aren’t working.
As long as people expect Big Brother to pay their medical care costs, they can expect Big Brother to be interested in whether their personal habits are healthy or unhealthy (whether or not such interest is considered desirable).
It is useful (mainly due to ease of collecting data) for population research with respect to obesity, but it is less effective for individual assessment, due to such situations as muscular athletes and laborers, or low weight low muscle people who are sometimes called “normal weight obese” or “skinny fat”.
It is worse than not using any nicotine at all, but not as bad as taking the same amount of nicotine through smoking (mainly because of all of the other harmful stuff in the smoke).
Exactly. I would have had to practically starve myself to get to that size as I was already only a size 4, exercised most days, did resistance training, etc. and was very healthy in just about every way. That’s why I was so annoyed.
@Nrdsb4 Is it possible that you misunderstood what was being said? Most height/weight charts as well as the CDC indicate that 113 lbs would make you underweight for that height.
As long as people expect Big Brother to pay their medical care costs, they can expect Big Brother to be interested in whether their personal habits are healthy or unhealthy (whether or not such interest is considered desirable).*
Did you see where I said I would rather pay out of pocket if it meant that the dr could spend the time with me that was needed, rather than the eight minutes that the insurance allows?
The slippery slope argument just does not convince me. Just because we regulate one thing does not mean that we have to regulate all similar things. Just because we charge smokers more does not mean we have to charge Big Gulp drinkers more. We draw lines all the time – the question is where should we draw the line, not whether we should have lines. Smokers should pay more for insurance because they cost the system more – and they could do something about it.
ETA: As the mother of two sons, I always thought it was somewhat unfair that their car insurance was so much more than my daughter’s – it wasn’t their fault that they were born male. But of course I understood that boys cause more accidents . . . Is that “Big Brother” to charge them more?
There are concierge practices offering a higher level of service (in terms of time spent with the physician and such), but for an additional fee, and you do all of the insurance paperwork yourself (if applicable).
If you are buying your own insurance, you can also choose a higher deductible insurance plan with lower premiums, with the intent on using the insurance only for catastrophically large medical costs. If you get it from your employer, you may want to investigate whether you can waive it, get the money, and buy your own, or if you can lobby them to add a higher deductible option.
Insurance companies have denied coverage (or denied claims, or charged more) to women who are victims of domestic violence. Even auto and homeowner’s insurance! They will do whatever they can get away with! I would NOT trust them to stop at smoking, not without laws to enforce that. Supposedly, Obamacare has made this practice illegal. We’ll see.
http://www.womenslawproject.org/brochures/Insurance_discrimDV.pdf
My internist is a concierge physician. And they file the insurance claims for me. I haven’t ever filed any paperwork from visits I’ve had to his office, or visits he made to me in the hospital. I think it’s a case of YMMV depending on the physician’s office. Surprisingly, my internist’s office manages with only two employees, other than the physician.
Sound a bit close-minded…
The system in which insurers can charge based on anything they want sounds reasonable, but only if there was no additional tax for not having insurance. In my mind, as soon as Obamacare came into effect the rules about what is okay and what isn’t dramatically changed.
Post #77, I know, just to let you know people can be biased.
This was not a conversation. I received a letter which stated I was overweight in terms of ideal, and that my “ideal” weight was 113 lbs. I did not misunderstand. That is the whole point of my mentioning it-that 113 lbs. at my height and bone structure would have been underweight, pretty much impossible for me to attain or at least maintain, and that I was offended to be called “overweight” at 5’6" and 124 lbs. It was crazy, and I have no idea why employee health would have made such an assertion. If there was a mistake, it was theirs and not mine.
I should have saved that letter, because I would love to be so “overweight” right now. I’m currently trying to lose weight and get healthy again after suffering many back injuries, neck surgery, loss of ability to exercise like I once did, menopause, and some unfortunate lifestyle choices which have packed on some unwanted pounds. I would be happy to be 130 lbs.