Insurance making us take a nicotine test

So how about Type II diabetes?

Risk factors:

.Weight. Being overweight is a primary risk factor for type 2 diabetes.
•Fat distribution. If your body stores fat primarily in your abdomen, your risk of type 2 diabetes is greater than if your body stores fat elsewhere, such as your hips and thighs.
•Inactivity.
•Family history.
•Race.
•Age. The risk of type 2 diabetes increases as you get older, especially after age 45. That’s probably because people tend to exercise less, lose muscle mass and gain weight as they age.
•Prediabetes. .
•Gestational diabetes.
•Polycystic ovary syndrome.

Should they pay more?

Let’s say you live in Iowa. How would you feel if your homeowner’s insurance went up because insurance companies were no longer allowed to charge people more if they lived in earthquake or hurricane prone areas?

There are, I think, at least two possible answers to this:

  1. It’s OK with me–we’re all in this together.
  2. Why should I pay more to insure people against a risk that is inapplicable to me?

I think that’s the issue, in a nutshell.

I think group employer subsidized insurance will soon be denied to smokers. They will be the first ousted onto a mandatory exchange, followed soon enough by us all. Employers want nothing more than to ditch the complex expensive process of healthcare provision.

“Employers want nothing more than to ditch the complex expensive process of healthcare provision.”

And I can’t blame them! It’s always stunned me that Republicans – who are so pro-business – argue against any health care system other than one that puts enormous financial burdens on employers.

@alfonsia I totally agree, and wouldnt have a problem with it, if employers actually paid us in wages what they spend on health insurance. Unfortunately, we will slowly be pushed to the exchanges with no increase in wages. So employers with increase profits hand over fist, and the employees will once again be hosed.

I actually know something about this topic and am not simply afraid the handouts are going to stop. Insurers rate risks and everything is a risk. Smoking is easily detected and easy to assign a risk factor to. I’m sure many of you are glancing behind you to make sure your Benefits Department folks or your Blue Cross agent isn’t following you around to make sure you are taking the stairs instead of the elevator.

MODERATOR’S NOTE:

As long as they are being expressed in a civil manner. Several of the posts on the last few pages had a bit too much snark going on. Let’s rein in the side eye please.

I have deleted several of those posts as being uncivil and, for the most part, off topic. As skieurope says, let’s stick to the topic and keep it civil.

Sax, this is an easy case… if there are no genetic causes that can be completely ruled out, it is off limits. So diabetes falls into one category, while smoking falls into the other. The line is pretty clear.

I do feel like they are following me around.

I went to Dr. for pain in my lower back. I had a cyst and took antibiotics and it went away.
Since then my health care provider has sent me continuous information for bad backs. They believe I have back problems.
I do NOT.

My daughter takes Metformin for PCOS.
Since she started her health care provider sends her continuous info. on diabetes. They believe she has diabetes.
She does NOT.

Re #105

I have often found that using the stairs is faster than using the elevator. Unfortunately, many buildings make the stairs unusable to go up or go between floors, meaning that you are only supposed to use them for evacuation.

Earlier today while reading through emails, I felt like we had a small earthquake. I found that we did, 3.3. We’ve had many small earthquakes in this region of Texas in the last several months. Great. Now, in addition to having high homeowner’s insurance due to the kinds of hail storms we get, being in Tornado Alley, we are now going to get dinged for living in an “earthquake prone” area! I’m joking, but I hope I haven’t jinxed myself.

DH is self employed and we have very expensive private insurance, with a huge deductible and very high premiums. I don’t recall, however, ever having to answer any lifestyle questions, such as smoking history, frequency of alcohol consumption, etc. I certainly have never had any kind of drug screen associated with this insurance. I won’t be surprised, however, if that changes.

@Nrdsb4 I was at a conference recently and met a lady who worked in Texas. She was talking about all the litigation related to fracking and these mini earthquakes that are occurring in places that normally wouldnt have that type of activity.

@partyof5, yes, fracking is getting a lot of scrutiny.

Also, a whole lot of these earthquakes have been centered near the old Texas Stadium (where Dallas Cowboys used to play). It was imploded, and I have seen speculation that the implosion may have had an impact on a local fault line which had been quiet for a long time.

Beats me…

Flooding can happen anywhere. Earthquakes are cropping up in weird places. Tornados are traveling more than they used to. Soon we’ll have exploding cornfields in Iowa due to some genetically modified corn that is “ethanol ready”.

The insurance companies will be licking their chops!

There always is some form of subsidy in insurance that doesn’t measure real risk, health insurance has been one of the few that basically incorporates risk into the entire pool (so for example, assuming that 20% of the population smokes, incorporating that into the entire pool as a risk, and calculating rates based on that, same for things like age (since older people tend to use health insurance more), and the like. It is one argument for a single payer system, that with a gigantic pool that the risks are spread out, and that younger people help subsidize those older.

Life insurance, because it is direct, takes all the factors into consideration, if you smoke, are overweight, have a family history of heart disease, cancer, etc, it all factors into your cost of life insurance.

Other forms of insurance do shift costs from Peter to Paul, flood insurance is a classic example. Where I live is maybe a 1 in a hundred year flood area, no big rivers near by, no lakes or ocean, yet my flood insurance is a significant percentage of my total house insurance (it is around 600 a year for the flood alone). Why? Very simply, that attempts to make flood prone areas have to pay the full risk of where they live, has run into politics. If it weren’t for this cost shifting, people in flood areas near the coasts, in areas in the midwest near rivers, and so forth, would be paying significantly more to get flood insurance (some places that are extremely risky, like barrier islands, I believe cannot get it) and it might as well be unaffordable (an article said that for example, a homeowner near the water in Queens, NYC, could see his flood insurance go from 500 bucks annually (which is less than I pay!), to as much as 15k a year. The flood insurance program is in a financial hole in part because of the cost of major storms, especially Sandy, hit it hard.

With auto insurance, people living in suburban and rural areas often pay a lot more than they otherwise would based in risk, because insurers are not allowed to charge the real rate of rick in city areas and known dangerous places to drive, because the insurance could become unaffordable to people, and given that in many places you have to drive to get to work, would be a major problem.

I think one of the problems with smoking on health insurance plans is that given the huge costs associated with smoking related health problems, incentives to quit smoking (like cutting the rate a person pays when they quit smoking) may not be incentive enough, if let’s say they estimate the risk of smoking is worth 200 bucks a month in risk, it wouldn’t be fair to drop a smoker’s rate 200 bucks a month so they end up paying less than someone who never smoked, whereas charging a smoker 200 more a month than dropping it 200 if they quit is fair to everyone else. With smoking it is huge hanging fruit,other than a few people who might tell you “nothing wrong with smoking, grandpa frank smoked until the day he died at 96”, almost no one denies that smoking as a health risk outstrips almost anything else, is so closely correlated to costs that it can’t be denied. Yep, the risk of getting let’s say type II diabetes increases with weight, age and how you carry the weight, but that risk pales in comparison to smoking related costs/risks (so if there is a 20% higher likelyhood of getting type II diabetes if you are overweight, that means that significant proportions of those who are overweight will not get the disease, same with other ills of weight)…obviously, that also changes if someone is morbidly obese, but the other thing with weight is that the old puritanical notions that it is always a moral failing have fallen by the way side, it is a fact that genetics plays a role, that the skinny fashion model who eats junk food and swills soda and is a size 0 is freakish genetics, and that the person who is morbidly obese might eat carefully, and still be way overweight…and with genetic related causes, it becomes a lot harder to compare those to someone smoking, which basically is addiction and something they chose to do.

Yes, tracking causes earthquakes, but injecting wastewater deep into the ground is the larger culprit. It is also done by the gas and petroleum industry. So, fracking itself causes earthquakes, an the wastewater resulting from fracking causes them too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/us-maps-areas-of-increased-earthquakes-from-human-activity.html?_r=0

There are maps too.

they should also ask if you have unsecured firearms in the house